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Thread: Tell 'em they're dreaming . . . Govt announces new policy, predator free by 2050

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Friwi View Post
    Let them eradicate the predators on Stewart island first without killing the kiwis, then we ll see how valid their strategy is for the two main islands.
    geeez just make us the guinea pigs! got the same problem with reinvasion, boats coming over from bluff fishing, container ships waiting for a berth in bluff that are close to shore, deep sea trawlers taking shelter and cruise ships. all of the above have rats on them and come withen 500m of shore. not to mention the ongoing costs of running a quarantine within a habitated area, rat detecting dogs at ferry and plane... the list goes on
    veitnamcam likes this.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by EeeBees View Post
    @WallyR, re hedgehogs...they especially like canned cat food according to one person I know...they also eat ground laying birds' eggs...scabby mongrels...

    In the "old days" when the rabbits were in plague numbers, my father shot thousands of them, and also poisoned them with phosphorus laced jam...can you imagine that happening today...?? they were that thick that cabbage trees were completely debarked up as high as a rabbit could get its teeth...

    Talking to a young lad the other day about the possums when they were big in numbers...my brother and I shot 80 out of one big old kanuka tree...the boy stated he thought that was a mistake...I said, well, you had to be there, I guess...
    Ta mate - have been 'conversing' with an interested party on another FB post (no credits for the other site), and did say that 'hogs eat eggs, ground nesting bird chicks, lizards etc.. It appears that ol' Hedgy has quite a bit of support in the supposedly 'educated' halls of DOC. Go figure.

    @timattalon
    Funny that eh. Although possum are mainly vegan, others have posted elsewhere that they're not above adding the odd egg or two to their diet.

    A thought for us all.
    When the Moa disappeared, there were no multi-level leaf browsers about, until the introduction of deer and the release of possum to the wild after failed fur industry breeders.
    Native trees had adapted to being browsed as part of the tree's development - encouraging rapid growth during the early months/years, to take the leaves above Moa feeding height.
    So perhaps not including possum (who leaf browse higher than Moa could reach), is an oversight - or not, as 1080 poison has been 'blanket bombed' to these two target leaf browsers (deer and possum), but conveniently for the manufacturers, gets altered to mice, rats and other ground dwellers (tahr, chamois, goats and deer), who are then targeted for 1080 drops. Not sure if DOC have done definitive studies on secondary and tertiary poisoning of wildlife that ingests insects and parts of poisoned carcasses, such as carrion eaters and omnivores. Most predators prefer their meat fresh, so 1080 is missing rats, stoat, ferret and weasel.
    Just a 'bee in my bonnet' I have about poisoning in such an uncontrolled manner - my other 'bee in my bonnet' is about our supposedly 'pristine, wild bush', flooded with 1080 from the air and the expected 'life' of airdropped poison being active for 10-14 days.
    Enough to have kill rates on other species for which the drop was not targeted - native birds and small animals for example.
    Stopping here before I get really started.
    Wirehunt and veitnamcam like this.

  3. #18
    A Good Keen Girl Dougie's Avatar
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    So - in this plan they will ban all domestic keeping of rats, mice, stoats, ferrets, cats and rabbits?

    I think we are all aware that the true European feral rabbit only occurs in brown with some white colouring...how many rabbits have you disposed of that are black, white, grey...? Little Miss Snotrag can't look after her pet anymore so it's let to roam free..

    And wtf, I bet there is no country with zero rats. I bet even the bases in Antartica have them.

    What a joke.


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    veitnamcam, Maca49, WallyR and 2 others like this.
    She loves the free fresh wind in her hair; Life without care. She's broke but it's oke; that's why the lady is a tramp.

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  4. #19
    Member viper's Avatar
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    Ok some boarders need to be set here Dougie.........RABBITS ARE NOT PESTS !!!!!!........they are sport: thumbsup:
    EeeBees and Maca49 like this.

  5. #20
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    sounds like a job for "the expendables", too big for chuck norris on his own

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallyR View Post
    While 'uneducated' city dwellers continue to release part-grown cats into the bush (can't be bothered re-homing the cat, and other self serving excuses), cat predation of smaller birds and native wildlife will continue.
    Rats are one of the most adaptable of all introduced predatory species, so look for heavy 'bombing' of 1080 poison in most of the favored hunting areas.
    Stoats and ferrets are smart animals - difficult to find, hard to reduce numbers unless they partake of fresh poisoned carcasses.
    Hedgehogs - a new one to me. Didn't know they ate meat of any kind.
    Introduced bird species (larger breeds), contribute as much to the decline of native species as any of the above.
    No study has been carried out - to my knowledge - on secondary, tertiary and quadrenary poison kills using 1080.
    DOC and PCNZ need to clearly indicate through valid studies, that these latter stages of poisoning DO NOT CONTRIBTE to a reduction in the omnivorous native species - Weka, Kea, etc.
    My 2c worth.
    Good 2cents worth Wally
    Cats are always a problem for me round holiday time - people seem to drop them off at the roadside picnic area just before the turn off to the beach - cats should be high on the PFNZ hit list - but it is a sensitive subject as most people have a cat sitting on their knee at night
    People also seem to be fascinated by hogs around their back yard - the bastards can eat meat, bones, eggs, chicks, invertebrates - if you donít like skinning possums - just leave it for the hog to clean it out for you
    Hedgehog Skull
    If you have this shit on your lawn - you have hogs in your garden - trap the bastards
    Hedgehog photo - Erinaceus europaeus - A23201 | ARKive
    hog eating a possum
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtQUaFotDnM
    not much left of this one
    WallyR likes this.

  7. #22
    By Popular Demand gimp's Avatar
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    It's very difficult to bother arguing with so many people who are wrong about so many things, so you're all just going to have to take my word for it.


    However a point to note perhaps ought to be that the focus of the previous/existing Predator Free Trust was largely to get communities engaged in predator control, the "army of volunteers" trapping and whatnot, and also research into predator behaviour (see ZIP), so the immediate negative response of JERKS MORE 1080 RAGHR BLOO BLOO BLOO is probably unjustified

  8. #23
    A Good Keen Girl Dougie's Avatar
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    True gimp, but what's wrong with setting reasonable goals? Recently the govt said they would reduce reoffending by 25% by 2017...and that's where it ended. What's the actual plan here? Has their even been sufficient research done to know exactly how many pests we are dealing with and in what areas?


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  9. #24
    Member stretch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougie View Post
    True gimp, but what's wrong with setting reasonable goals? Recently the govt said they would reduce reoffending by 25% by 2017...and that's where it ended. What's the actual plan here? Has their even been sufficient research done to know exactly how many pests we are dealing with and in what areas?
    It's all just headline-grabbing Trumpisms. "We'll build a wall", "We'll kill all the terrorists". Wonderful ideas that voters will love, with no plan on how to go about it, or the unintended consequences.


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  10. #25
    By Popular Demand gimp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougie View Post
    True gimp, but what's wrong with setting reasonable goals? Recently the govt said they would reduce reoffending by 25% by 2017...and that's where it ended. What's the actual plan here? Has their even been sufficient research done to know exactly how many pests we are dealing with and in what areas?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    They have stated goals for 2020 and 2025 which seem relatively reasonable

    2020 goals
    • Develop a collaborative predator control strategy.
    • Another 175,000 hectares in addition to the current
    1 million hectares on conservation land and 7 million
    hectares led by OSPRI are under some form of control.
    • Five projects supported by PFNZ are making progress,
    and sharing lessons.
    • PFNZ and DOC will tackle larger scale operations.
    • Collaborative results will show social and economic benefits.
    • PFNZ will foster community participation in local
    predator control activities.
    2025 goals
    • Increase by 1 million hectares the areas of New Zealand
    where predators are suppressed.
    • Demonstrate predator removal in areas of mainland New
    Zealand of 20,000 hectares.
    • Remove all mammalian predators from New Zealand’s
    offshore island nature reserves.
    • Develop science solutions that remove at least one small
    mammal predator from the New Zealand mainland.
    There is all kinds of monitoring of pest numbers that goes on. The question "how many" is the wrong question, and I wish they'd stop using absolute numbers like "25,000,000" because they're not measurable or accurate, but they're easier for people to take in than concepts like "relative abundance", because, as demonstrated by this forum's response to this, reading comprehension isn't a common skill

    A little consideration and an open mind instead of a knee-jerk-burst-into-tears reaction at the idea of someone investing a relatively small amount of money in terms of government spending into trying to preserve our natural heritage might be a good idea

  11. #26
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    Playing the devils advocate... If they do succeed with a genetic change and it's allowed to go ahead, why not! They stated that technologies are still being developed and my crystal ball doesn't work!
    Dougie likes this.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by viper View Post
    Ok some boarders need to be set here Dougie.........RABBITS ARE NOT PESTS !!!!!!........they are sport: thumbsup:
    If they aren't controlled they are incredibly damaging to pasture, create the ideal conditions for slips and washouts, break animals legs - hell, I just about rolled the bossses new ute in a paddock when the top of a rabbit CAVERN fell in under the left front roller. I didn't even know it was there...

  13. #28
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    Lets keep this discussion tidy

    Im all for our own Circulus in probando (Ie: circular logic) around our thoughts on pest control and its a reasonable approach at times except in addition with politics


    We have a no politics rule here.
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    A big fast bullet beats a little fast bullet every time

  14. #29
    Member viper's Avatar
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    No shit they are a pest Mauser 308, I am living in Central, more rabbits than sheep and people combined.......my comment to Dougie was tongue in cheek

  15. #30
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    Yeah I did understand that - TiC notwithstanding I've been blown away by how the little sods are getting on with all things natural in the BoP. Working by one of the Rotorua lakes, we had one paddock of around 100 or so visible rabbits. If the trapper's line is worth it's salt - for every rabbit you see there are another four downstairs - you do the math. That was one paddock mind - imagine the overall numbers in the area. No wonder we have issues with waterways silting up and land being unusable for farming...

    I was to be fair completely shocked at the numbers - two years ago there were hardly any in evidence. The cavern I drove into would have been around a m3 of soil excavated, and only one entrance to the burrow network. Little sods... By comparison in my home area of Oropi, feral cat numbers are slightly elevated but not unusual, mustelids aren't obviously active but probably around, wasps haven't been as bad as previous summers, mice are always obvious, freaking bloody rats have been a plague this year (we are now running commercial bait stations with the new no-secondary-posioning hormone attractant baits and have appeared to get on top of them but we are one little block), possums are around but mostly seen on the road in the morning, hares are light in numbers as well. We've killed a couple of hedgehogs through them snuffling into trenches and not being able to get out so probably a few of them around.

    No magpies or plovers as yet which is nice, rosellas are getting the message as well. Cat dragged in a loft pigeon the other day - good one to be removed from the environment (dirty huas). We do have an issue with starlings and other introduced birds, would be nice to be able to thin them down a touch. I do see the logical argument regarding pest control - they ain't gunna be able to achieve shite with the 'targetting the forests' approach (most of the pests live in or close to the towns and cities) but it is also good to see that they are actually acknowledging that we have a pest problem in NZ.

 

 

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