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Thread: REMINDER: SELLING FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION

  1. #1
    By Popular Demand gimp's Avatar
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    REMINDER: SELLING FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION

    Please remember to check the firearms licence of all persons purchasing firearms or ammunition, and comply with all legal requirements.



    As the seller of a firearm or ammunition you have a legal and moral obligation to ensure that the person you are selling to is appropriately licenced. Please do so.

  2. #2
    By Popular Demand gimp's Avatar
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    Remember, it's an offence under the Arms Act to sell firearms or ammunition to an unlicensed person:


    43Selling or supplying firearm or airgun to unlicensed person
    (1)Every person commits an offence and is liable on conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 months or to a fine not exceeding $1,000 or to both who—
    (a)sells or supplies a firearm (other than a pistol, military style semi-automatic firearm, or restricted weapon) to any person who is not the holder of a firearms licence or a dealer's licence or a permit issued for the purposes of section 16(1); or
    (b)sells or supplies an airgun to any natural person who is under the age of 18 years and is not the holder of a firearms licence.
    (2)In any prosecution for an offence against subsection (1) in which it is proved,—
    (a)in the case of a prosecution for an offence against paragraph (a) of that subsection, that the defendant sold or supplied a firearm to any person, the burden of proving that that person was the holder of a firearms licence shall lie on the defendant; and
    (b)in the case of a prosecution for an offence against paragraph (b) of that subsection, that the defendant sold or supplied an airgun (not being a specially dangerous airgun) to a person under the age of 18 years, the burden of proving that that person was the holder of a firearms licence shall lie on the defendant.
    (3)It is a good defence to a prosecution for an offence against paragraph (a) or paragraph (b) of subsection (1) if the defendant proves,—
    (a)in the case of a prosecution relating to the possession of a firearm (not being a pistol, military style semi-automatic firearm, or restricted weapon) by any person,—
    (i)that the firearm was in the possession of that person for use under the immediate supervision of the holder of a firearms licence; and
    (ii)that at all times while that person was in possession of the firearm, that person was under the immediate supervision of the holder of a firearms licence; or
    (b)in the case of a prosecution relating to the possession of an airgun (not being a specially dangerous airgun),—
    (i)that the airgun was in the possession of that person for use under the immediate supervision of either a person of or over the age of 18 years or the holder of a firearms licence; and
    (ii)that at all times while that person was in possession of the airgun, that person was under the immediate supervision of either a person of or over the age of 18 years or the holder of a firearms licence.
    (4)A defendant may, in the case of a prosecution relating to the sale or supply of a firearm or airgun to any person, discharge the burden of proof placed on him by subsection (2) by proving that he took reasonable steps to ascertain whether that person was the holder of a firearms licence or was of or over the age of 18 years, as the case may require.

    Restriction on sales of ammunition
    (1)Every person commits an offence and is liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding $1,000 who sells or supplies ammunition for any firearm or restricted weapon to a person who is not—
    (a)the holder of a firearms licence; or
    (b)a licensed dealer.
    (2)In any prosecution for an offence against subsection (1) in which it is proved that the defendant sold or supplied ammunition for a firearm or restricted weapon to any person, the burden of proving that that person was—
    (a)the holder of a firearms licence; or
    (b)a licensed dealer,—
    shall lie on the defendant.
    (3)It is a good defence to a prosecution for an offence against subsection (1) if the defendant proves—
    (a)that the ammunition was supplied to a person for use under the immediate supervision of the holder of a firearms licence; and
    (b)that at all times while the person to whom the ammunition was supplied was in possession of the ammunition, that person was under the immediate supervision of the holder of a firearms licence.
    (4)A defendant may, in the case of a prosecution for an offence against subsection (1), discharge the burden of proof placed on the defendant by subsection (2) by proving that the defendant took reasonable steps to ascertain whether the person to whom the ammunition was sold or supplied was—
    (a)the holder of a firearms licence; or
    (b)a licensed dealer.
    (5)Nothing in this section applies in relation to any ammunition for a firearm to which paragraph (a) or paragraph (b) or paragraph (c) of section 22(1) applies.

  3. #3
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    Any way of removing items that have "SOLD", according to the original seller/buyer? Get a little p##sed off chasing items that have been 'sold', but still appear in the BUY, SELL, SWAP thread. Might be easier and reduce the number of pages/threads that still appear to be available. Thanks, WallyR

  4. #4
    By Popular Demand gimp's Avatar
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    The OP of the thread could post that it has sold in their own for sale thread. Admin team has better things to do with our free time than run around after that sort of thing

  5. #5
    Top Member Remington 5R .300 Win Mag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimp View Post
    Please remember to check the firearms licence of all persons purchasing firearms or ammunition, and comply with all legal requirements.



    As the seller of a firearm or ammunition you have a legal and moral obligation to ensure that the person you are selling to is appropriately licenced. Please do so.

    As a firearms seller, do you have a legal obligation to take/keep a record of the buyers licence details? My mate says 'no', however, I'd always believed 'yes', but I can't find evidence to support my claim!
    "Quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten"!

  6. #6
    By Popular Demand gimp's Avatar
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    No

  7. #7
    Top Member Remington 5R .300 Win Mag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimp View Post
    No
    Thanks.
    "Quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten"!

  8. #8
    Top Member Remington 5R .300 Win Mag's Avatar
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    Just another couple of questions. I had my ten year vetting a couple of years ago, and the vetter said, "we need to know the number of rifles, make, and calibers that you've got, we don't need the serial numbers!" Now, I read somewhere that the cops don't need to be privy to that sort of information, it's actually not their business and that we shouldn't be telling them, in case criminals 'hack' the cops data bank and can ascertain exactly who's got what, and where!
    My question is; am I obligated 'currently' to forward those details to the police or not?

    The second question is; am I still obligated to sight the 'buyers' licence, if the buyer is a gun shop?
    Thanks.
    "Quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten"!

  9. #9
    Member Maca49's Avatar
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    Just had my 10 yrs he only asked how many rifles I owned and I got it wrong good point on the gun shop, I'd now expect to sight a licence? A dishonest employee could snaffel it for themselves?
    Boom, cough,cough,cough

  10. #10
    Top Member Remington 5R .300 Win Mag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maca49 View Post
    Just had my 10 yrs he only asked how many rifles I owned and I got it wrong
    So, are you saying you legally have to give the number, make and calibers, or are you saying you don't?
    "Quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten"!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Remington 5R .300 Win Mag View Post
    Just another couple of questions. I had my ten year vetting a couple of years ago, and the vetter said, "we need to know the number of rifles, make, and calibers that you've got, we don't need the serial numbers!" Now, I read somewhere that the cops don't need to be privy to that sort of information, it's actually not their business and that we shouldn't be telling them, in case criminals 'hack' the cops data bank and can ascertain exactly who's got what, and where!
    My question is; am I obligated 'currently' to forward those details to the police or not?

    The second question is; am I still obligated to sight the 'buyers' licence, if the buyer is a gun shop?
    Thanks.
    Yes Police have been asking A cat holders their details. FYI there are thousands of B,C,E holders who do have their firearms registered by the Police. The concern of a shopping list for criminals hasn't borne out in the real world.

  12. #12
    Top Member Remington 5R .300 Win Mag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kscott View Post
    Yes Police have been asking A cat holders their details. FYI there are thousands of B,C,E holders who do have their firearms registered by the Police. The concern of a shopping list for criminals hasn't borne out in the real world.
    The thing is, police can ask for it, however, police are (supposed to be) 'only' law 'enforcement' officers, not the laws itself, I'm interested only in the law, and is it LAW that we have to give details for A CAT firearms. Now, regarding the B, C, and E holders, yes, they 'are' required by law to have their associated firearms registered, but, my information says we aren't legally obligated to forward these details to Police! All I'm trying to do is get a straight forward answer as to weather that's true or not? thanks.
    "Quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten"!

  13. #13
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    They are not required by law to do so for A cat license holders.

  14. #14
    Member Maca49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maca49 View Post
    Just had my 10 yrs he only asked how many rifles I owned and I got it wrong good point on the gun shop, I'd now expect to sight a licence? A dishonest employee could snaffel it for themselves?
    No, even asking for the number you own is a no! For A cat, most doing the vetting are not police officers anyway.
    Boom, cough,cough,cough

  15. #15
    Member Maca49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Remington 5R .300 Win Mag View Post
    The thing is, police can ask for it, however, police are (supposed to be) 'only' law 'enforcement' officers, not the laws itself, I'm interested only in the law, and is it LAW that we have to give details for A CAT firearms. Now, regarding the B, C, and E holders, yes, they 'are' required by law to have their associated firearms registered, but, my information says we aren't legally obligated to forward these details to Police! All I'm trying to do is get a straight forward answer as to weather that's true or not? thanks.
    B,C and E cats are required because probably the police info is not correct, any permits squired for these weapons you should keep a copy of, as in my case I was asked to explain what happened to two pistols I owned five years after I'd sold them! Just as well I had the details, it was a tardy AO hadn't done his job and they were still in my name!
    Boom, cough,cough,cough

 

 

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