Welcome guest, is this your first visit? Create Account now to join.
  • Login:

Welcome to the NZ Hunting and Shooting Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.

NZGR Black Watch


User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 68
Like Tree60Likes

Thread: Calibre and Barrel Length Decision......

  1. #31
    Sending it Gibo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    The Hill
    Posts
    18,059
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathias View Post
    The real issue is rifles that have an exposed cocking piece or indicator that is directly part of or connected to the firing pin. A bloody good whack on these and it will likely discharge and that is just plain unsafe!
    Like a Tikka?
    Werawhakaui?

    Rule 4. Identify your target beyond all doubt.

  2. #32
    Member Mathias's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Canterbury, home of the big Rakaia Red Stag
    Posts
    1,267
    Quote Originally Posted by Gibo View Post
    Like a Tikka?
    A Tikka is under cover (plastic) but does have an indicator, though this is not really exposed. I personally just don't condone the practice.

  3. #33
    Member Shearer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    2,303
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathias View Post
    The real issue is rifles that have an exposed cocking piece or indicator that is directly part of or connected to the firing pin. A bloody good whack on these and it will likely discharge and that is just plain unsafe!
    Good point.
    The T3's cocking indicator is completely hidden under the bolt shroud when decocked.
    Experience. What you get just after you needed it.

  4. #34
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    auckland
    Posts
    116
    I see, thanks for highlighting these points. I could never quite decipher this story which was most probably told to me while twisting tops off brown bottles a wee while ago.
    Sorry for thread highjack maxx...keep the 260 std or chop and can the 308 bro.
    Shearer likes this.

  5. #35
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    89
    leaving a live round in the chamber on a decocked bolt IS NOT SAFE

    Regardless of whether the back end of the firing pin assembly is exposed or not, there is still a risk of discharge as the pin is sitting on the primer and under spring tension, so a heavy bump on the stock can be sufficient to bounce the firing pin causing a discharge.

  6. #36
    Member Shearer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    2,303
    I had assumed that if the rifle was decocked the spring was NOT under tension???
    Hopefully someone will try it to see if it will actually happen.
    Experience. What you get just after you needed it.

  7. #37
    Terminator Products Kiwi Greg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Nelson
    Posts
    4,288
    Quote Originally Posted by Shearer View Post
    I had assumed that if the rifle was decocked the spring was NOT under tension???
    Hopefully someone will try it to see if it will actually happen.
    Easy enough, prepped case with primer ONLY in it & full your boots...

    BTW primers are pretty loud so be careful where you do this

    Oh & naturally keep the pointy end away from you

  8. #38
    Member Sideshow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    2,262
    Quote Originally Posted by Shearer View Post
    I had assumed that if the rifle was decocked the spring was NOT under tension???
    Hopefully someone will try it to see if it will actually happen.
    I'm with Shearer on this.

  9. #39
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Middle Earth
    Posts
    1,773
    The de cocked firing pin will still be in a very strong tension on most bolt guns. Good luck trying to bounce the the rifle hard enough to get enough energy for the firing pin to travel back (at all) and forth to strike the primer.
    tetawa and rossi.45 like this.

  10. #40
    JWB
    JWB is offline
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    54
    Quote Originally Posted by Shearer View Post
    I must be the odd one out here. I own two T3s. When I go hunting I chamber a round and put the safety on. If I see game, I disengage the safety and shoot it. If I don't, I unload the rifle at the end of the hunt. If I was a position that I did"t trust the safety (clambering around sketchy country maybe) I disengage the safety, squeeze the trigger and close the bolt (decocked on a live round). Pretty safe I recon. In order for it to fire the bolt would have to be lifted and closed again which is pretty hard to do accidently. When I am ready to start hunting again I lift the bolt, close it, and engage the safety. Done.
    Even the rifles I can top load from I never actually find a need to.
    It seems as though you have acquired a couple of bad habits and haven't thought through what is actually going on. Firstly, calling a trigger blocking lever a safety is where the head problem starts. A mechanical device is not a safety. If you think that a firearm is safe after engaging a mechanical block then you trust that it won't fire and will end up pointing it in all sorts of unlikely directions. The only safe rifle is an empty one that you treat as loaded at all times. The safety for a firearm is what is happening between a shooters ears.
    A primer is a delicate explosive device, designed to be detonated by having the compound crushed between the anvil and the cup by the impact of the firing pin. A de-cocked firing pin spring is always under compression. De-cock your bolt when it's out of your rifle, then try pushing the firing pin back flush with the bolt face if you doubt this.
    It is the inertia of the firing pin assembly that could allow it to travel away from the primer under the impact of a fall or being dropped, and return under spring pressure with enough force to set off the primer. Some firearm designs have a floating firing pin, some times held away from the primer by a light spring. These floating pins are in turn hit by a hammer which energises them. Your Tikka in not made this way. When you close your de-cocked bolt on a live round your firing pin is sitting on a live primer, under pressure, waiting for a jolt or knock to energise it.
    Firearms safety is about good habits.
    Tahr and kokako like this.

  11. #41
    Member northdude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    north auckland area
    Posts
    3,131
    Quote Originally Posted by Shearer View Post
    I had assumed that if the rifle was decocked the spring was NOT under tension???
    Hopefully someone will try it to see if it will actually happen.
    ok tried it today with a primed case spent just under an hour and couldn't get it to go off I would of nearly fuked my scope and rifle if I got rougher with it
    Shearer and rossi.45 like this.

  12. #42
    Member Shearer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    2,303
    Quote Originally Posted by JWB View Post
    It seems as though you have acquired a couple of bad habits and haven't thought through what is actually going on. Firstly, calling a trigger blocking lever a safety is where the head problem starts. A mechanical device is not a safety. If you think that a firearm is safe after engaging a mechanical block then you trust that it won't fire and will end up pointing it in all sorts of unlikely directions. The only safe rifle is an empty one that you treat as loaded at all times. The safety for a firearm is what is happening between a shooters ears.
    A primer is a delicate explosive device, designed to be detonated by having the compound crushed between the anvil and the cup by the impact of the firing pin. A de-cocked firing pin spring is always under compression. De-cock your bolt when it's out of your rifle, then try pushing the firing pin back flush with the bolt face if you doubt this.
    It is the inertia of the firing pin assembly that could allow it to travel away from the primer under the impact of a fall or being dropped, and return under spring pressure with enough force to set off the primer. Some firearm designs have a floating firing pin, some times held away from the primer by a light spring. These floating pins are in turn hit by a hammer which energises them. Your Tikka in not made this way. When you close your de-cocked bolt on a live round your firing pin is sitting on a live primer, under pressure, waiting for a jolt or knock to energise it.
    Firearms safety is about good habits.
    Seems to me you comment is full of contradiction.
    Mechanical safety's DO work. Try and fire my T3 with the safety engaged. I have known shooters to nearly straighten their trigger trying to shoot game with the safety on. Americans firearm manufacturers condone their safety devices and in the liability capital of the world, they would be stupid to make one that doesn't work. The only reason it will not work is if it is not engaged.
    I am VERY conscious of where I point a firearm - loaded or not, and having (and using) a safety has not and does not alter that fact.
    If it is not possible to push the firing pin back when a rifle is decocked, how is the inertia from a fall going to push it back enough to detonate the primer???
    You are correct. Firearms safety is about good habits, not misguided paranoia.
    Pengy and Nick-D like this.
    Experience. What you get just after you needed it.

  13. #43
    JWB
    JWB is offline
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    54
    Quote Originally Posted by Shearer View Post
    Seems to me you comment is full of contradiction.
    Mechanical safety's DO work. Try and fire my T3 with the safety engaged. I have known shooters to nearly straighten their trigger trying to shoot game with the safety on. Americans firearm manufacturers condone their safety devices and in the liability capital of the world, they would be stupid to make one that doesn't work. The only reason it will not work is if it is not engaged.
    I am VERY conscious of where I point a firearm - loaded or not, and having (and using) a safety has not and does not alter that fact.
    If it is not possible to push the firing pin back when a rifle is decocked, how is the inertia from a fall going to push it back enough to detonate the primer???
    You are correct. Firearms safety is about good habits, not misguided paranoia.
    Mechanical locks work when they leave the factory. They will work until they don't work. Murphy is a bastard! Take risks with your own safety by all means, but be considerate when among others.

  14. #44
    Member Shearer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    2,303
    Quote Originally Posted by JWB View Post
    Mechanical locks work when they leave the factory. They will work until they don't work. Murphy is a bastard! Take risks with your own safety by all means, but be considerate when among others.
    Thanks, I will. As I said in a previous post, when hunting with others I always have an empty chamber until I am ready to fire. This is not because I feel how I normally hunt is unsafe, rather it is for the other persons peace of mind. I would expect the same in return.
    veitnamcam, Pengy and Gibo like this.
    Experience. What you get just after you needed it.

  15. #45
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    auckland
    Posts
    116
    Interesting...I'm happy to resign that one to a theoretical high road. Thanks Northdude, I hope your scope reticles aren't shaking around loose after your testing.
    How about the old chestnut of the "half cock" bolt position. Safe? I find that when moved down a little with the trigger pulled it will slam fire. I think this could inadvertently happen in the bush and would only use it in combo action with the safety on.

 

 

Similar Threads

  1. Barrel length for 223
    By Maca49 in forum Firearms, Optics and Accessories
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 29-08-2016, 04:48 PM
  2. .243 Barrel length, over barrel or forward mount suppressor
    By Strider B in forum Projects and Home Builds
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10-07-2016, 06:31 PM
  3. Minimum legal barrel length and overall length for firearms
    By A.J.P. in forum Firearms, Optics and Accessories
    Replies: 65
    Last Post: 27-07-2015, 12:30 PM
  4. 223 barrel length?
    By puku in forum Reloading and Ballistics
    Replies: 57
    Last Post: 18-03-2015, 12:14 AM
  5. New barrel and calibre?
    By puku in forum Reloading and Ballistics
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 16-03-2014, 08:45 AM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Welcome to NZ Hunting and Shooting Forums! We see you're new here, or arn't logged in. Create an account, and Login for full access including our FREE BUY and SELL section Register NOW!!