Thread: An accuracy challenge

Everyone on the internet seems to have a "subMOA" rifle. Never seem to see too many at the range. Don't see too many subMOA shooters either... Let's see a bit of paper with 5x 5rd groups on it or I'll hit you with a wet fish whenever you mention how well your rifle shoots.

And here's mine I guess. Just mucking around at the range with 6.5x47 on bipod/rear bag at 100m. There were scope adjustments made between groups.





140gr amax, 42.1gr 2209, CCI450, unprepped (aside from FL sizing) lapua brass.

More practice is needed.

most of my range shooting is just 3 shot check the close loads...then a 5 or ten shot check...... Most of the targets I keep are the test ones for record of the loads
Like these
243AI


6.5x 6mmRemAI


then I do the odd throw a different pill in and do the same load as another with the same weight.... Not science but time is an issue to much
140sst load but put in 140vld and 140 Amax..2x 5 shot


243AI 10 shot test, 2 shots then 1 moa left then the 8..... the one to the left the bolt was tight to close so the shoulder needed bumping, interesting that is threw to the left...Harmonics or bad shooting??



bott0m group was the W760 load, 2209 won and became the load I stuck with

7mmSAUM 5 group tests trying to finalize a load.... 140's sorted but still yet to get the time to sort the heavy pill load, got some good groups but yet to confirm them with more than 4 shots...

I have shot plenty of sub MOA groups, I knew I should have taken photos for moments like this...

Shot 2 5 shot 1/2 MOA groups last night doing load (re)development with my 20 Tactical. Don't have a photo, and I imagine the target will be binned by the time I get home... So will have to discount that one as a myth...

Only 3 shot groups... Does that count?
6.5-284 - 0.209


7mmWSM - 0.364


243AI - 0.128


Sold both the 7mmWSM and 243AI as sub MOA rifles - did it easily, and consistantly.

Just chucked out a target from my 6.5x47L when we shifted. Had 6 5 shot groups from load development. All measured under 1/2 MOA, 2 were .25 or better...

Just re-read your initial post Gimp, sorry my groups don't count... Not really in the habit of firing 25 rounds at a bit of paper at 100m, apart from load development. So unfortunately I'm just going to have to put you with a wet fish slap, or not mention my rifles accuracy ever...

I know my rifle shoots better than I can with its current laod - is it a TRUE half moa rifle?....I would like to think it would come close but in reality probably not with what your asking.

25 rounds at a piece of paper - I'd rather go hunting and try and shoot 25 animals or practise at LR on steel then punch a few holes in paper.

I will take up the challenge using the old faithful JW15 .22 though

Practicing the fundamentals of shooting at 100 meters is a pretty good idea and not a waste of ammunition, at least in my opinion.

Originally Posted by gimp

Practicing the fundamentals of shooting at 100 meters is a pretty good idea and not a waste of ammunition, at least in my opinion.

I agree about the practicing the fundamentals of shooting, and I certainly should practice more... Most of what I do is shooting rocks, plate, etc at longer ranges for practice. Doesn't prove that my rifle(s) is a sub MOA rifle, but what I have done during the load development with each of them gives me the confidence to say that they are sub MOA.

I think I might just put the wheels in motion to switch barrel my Barnard so I can practice more though...

Some nice shooting there guys.

Here are sub moa targets from some of my 22s using hunting ammos. Stock standard rifles.

nzrimfire.com • View topic - Three .22 sharpshooters

and more from another marlin 60 - extremely accurate wee shooters. Forget the review and scroll down to sub moa targets.

nzrimfire.com • View topic - Marlin 60 DLX: Range test and pics.

If you're looking at shooting LR ( 400 + yards etc ) then you need to be testing groups at 400yards, 100y groups can mean diddly squat, whats good @ 100 can be shite @ 500 & vise versa


also why do the fulla's that test rifles in magazines only shoot poxy 3 shot groups ?

Originally Posted by The Claw

I agree about the practicing the fundamentals of shooting, and I certainly should practice more... Most of what I do is shooting rocks, plate, etc at longer ranges for practice. Doesn't prove that my rifle(s) is a sub MOA rifle, but what I have done during the load development with each of them gives me the confidence to say that they are sub MOA.

I think I might just put the wheels in motion to switch barrel my Barnard so I can practice more though...

The money you spend on the second barrel and fitting might as well go to the next 338 barrel....and just get used to shooting the big one so you know it inside out. You might even be surprised how long you barrel lasts if you dont shoot to many to fast
Then one you know it in and out the need to practice lots is gone...just the odd refresher LR shoot

Originally Posted by Philipo

If you're looking at shooting LR ( 400 + yards etc ) then you need to be testing groups at 400yards, 100y groups can mean diddly squat, whats good @ 100 can be shite @ 500 & vise versa


also why do the fulla's that test rifles in magazines only shoot poxy 3 shot groups ?

the groups may mean less but the shooting practice re getting used to the gun is important....as long as its done in feild type shooting positions

3 shot groups are indicators...then fine tune with 5 shots is how I do it..... sometimes just the one 5 shot group is done and if it shoots OK good enough for me

Little paddles make good targets too at 100

Originally Posted by leathel

The money you spend on the second barrel and fitting might as well go to the next 338 barrel....and just get used to shooting the big one so you know it inside out. You might even be surprised how long you barrel lasts if you dont shoot to many to fast
Then one you know it in and out the need to practice lots is gone...just the odd refresher LR shoot

True, but I "need" a LR rifle thats able to be supressed... Everything other than ballistics will be the same with the switch barrel setup. Its not as though I don't fire the Lunatic (or am worried about barrel life either), I've put 150 odd rounds through it in the last year.

There are some pesky hares living near our house (well 800-900m away) and her in doors isn't that impressed with the Lunatic being shot off the deck... I knew I would regret selling my Barnard 6.5x47L...

Anyway, back to the topic now, sorry bout the sidetrack...

Originally Posted by Philipo

If you're looking at shooting LR ( 400 + yards etc ) then you need to be testing groups at 400yards, 100y groups can mean diddly squat, whats good @ 100 can be shite @ 500 & vise versa


also why do the fulla's that test rifles in magazines only shoot poxy 3 shot groups ?

If you've got the right twist rate and consistent speeds then an accurate load at 100 should be an accurate load further out. Load testing at 400 meters would be somewhat ridiculous due to wind etc.

If it's shit at 100 it's never going to be good further out. Your angular dispersion isn't going to improve once the bullet has left the rifle. If you're getting "better" results (in angular terms) at longer ranges than 100 meters it's parallax or something.

The magazines shoot 3-shot groups because it makes the rifles that they are trying to sell look better.


I don't actually like shooting groups at all, it's not the most practical training. That day I was just mucking around with my zero and found the target in my rangebag last night. Always see people saying "my rifle will shoot MOA all day long" etc. Okay, so prove it then.

Well you wont be targeting me with that fish either. I certainly can't claim a sub moa rifle, though I suspect I have one, but with my shooting I couldn't tell. I'm consistently getting 28-29mm groups but can't for the life of me figure out how to stop the point I'm aiming at dancing all over the cross hairs. One of these days I should get someone to teach this decrepit old fool how to shoot.

Sorry, getting off topic a bit here again, but I find the 1st and 8th post quite interesting here:

Severely Overbore Chartidges and short barrel life myths... - LongRangeHunting Online Magazine