Thread: Could we do more

Originally Posted by stumpy

I have always wondered what the problem with the serial number of any weapon/firearm being logged against a person is ..
if your the owner , when you buy a firearm , why cant it go ,against your FL ?
are people worried about the info leaking into the wrong hands?
or being charged per firearm you own in some sort of registration scheme , like some on here all my firearms are of the endorsed type , I don't own any "A" cat firearms ... don't get pissy and come back in a rant , I am genuinely interested in the why not .
I realise now that to get all of NZ to come up with the number on all their guns and get checked etc would fail ... but it has to start somewhere ... maybe from jan 2017 all weapons bought , new and used must be registred , and I think that a cop at a scrotes house who finds a stolen firearm , if he has a serial number and a previous owner who was burgled then they could tie that crim into that crime , the more he/she is charged with the more they go away for (hopefully ) I personally cant see the harm in it ... but im sure others will .
cheers blair

From my own personal experience, all my B endorsed pistols were "registered" and they could not get that right, ie serial numbers not recorded correctly, not transfered on to or off my licence how can they do better if you add all known licence holders to the system ???

Originally Posted by 223nut

I agree with all of this except making everyone have an e cat. For Those that are renting or move a lot it would be a pain in The arse.

I'm sorry, I have to disagree. I rent and have an endorsement, if you want to own these firearms, you need to be able to keep them secure. I believe this to be the case with all firearms too.

I think NZ's sentencing laws are a real factor here. These dickheads getting busted in a crack lab with a stolen sawnoff or revolver get concurrent sentences, which is a joke. Commit 5 or 10 offences in a spree : rob liquor store, with a shotgun, punch the poor shopkeeper, flee in stolen car, fail to stop, while possessing class A drugs, with no license, on bail = should equal serving 8 or more sentences end on end for all 8 or more offenses committed. The more the merrier, they don't give a shit if they get caught, the wet bus ticket comes out for the most serious offense they've been nabbed for, it doesn't affect them very much if they get caught for a whole raft load or just the most serious on its own. There is next to ZERO deterrent factor in NZ sentencing laws, and it's bullshit. We even have instances of judges refusing to apply strikes (3 strikes laws) to these cretins when it's THE FUCKING LAW. I say to the NZ government, start there and leave little old law-abiding me the fuck alone until you sort them out.

Originally Posted by Dougie

I think the minimum security is a joke and I was very uncomfortable storing firearms that way.

I talked to an AO about that once who said that its mostly about being fit for purpose - the minimum standard is not intended for long-term permanent storage, its more for the sort of person who occasionally has a borrowed firearm to lock up for a night, or at a bach so you can lock up your rifle when you're there on holiday. Seemed fair enough to me.

Originally Posted by Kscott

I had a similar chat with a work colleague over the weekend. My question which I repeated over and over - what exactly will Police knowing what the serial number is, achieve ?

It won't stop burglary. Actually by helping to identify stolen firearms and link them back to a specific occurence offenders will be able to be linked and often prosecuted, helping prevent futhur offending.
It won't stop idiots who don't secure their firearms. Nope, but just because it doesn't fix all problems doesn't make it a wasted effort.
It won't stop those who are already in illegal possession of a firearm. Nope, but it might help prosecute them in the future.
It will create a massive workload on an under-resourced department. Nope, it won't make any difference.

Bottom line, if all people actually recorded thier own serial numbers and passed them to Police when their firearms were stolen then a lot more firearms would be returned to their owners rather than destroyed and criminals linked to specific offences, and prosecuted. Just like VINs and number plates on stolen cars. Sure an angle grinder can remove the numbers, however most won't bother, just like they don't bother removing VIN numbers.

Originally Posted by Maca49

So I bought a rifle from a gun shop yesterday, everything recorded, sold it today at a profit to a bonifide person, I do not keep records, what's the point?

The fact is at this point there is no point, and if you logically think about it that unless everyone is willing to inform the police of the firearms you own, then there will be no point. Criminals will always obtain guns, either by thefts or illegal imports, but two wrongs don,t make a right.
As gun owners we need to set the agenda, not try closing the door after the horse has bolted.
If we offered some of the following perhaps we could offset further restrictions
1. Better security, safes as a minimum standard
2. Inform police who you sell a firearm to, the rubbish spoken about data base security is irrelevant, everyone on this site is easily traceable as is anyone who visits a hunting via there number plate.
OK some people may say give them an inch and they will take a mile, but if they really want that mile they will take it anyway, as any Aussie .

Taff the law was changed, I think the current system is fine,maybe small tweaks but not wholesale changes. Security is something change in society has brought us to. But as said here, concentrate on the law breakers, give the some consequences to face. I'd vote for the return of the death sentence today for drugs, no tolerance at all, and extremely tough sentences for firearm offences.

Whenever someone complains about security requirements, I think about that guy in North Auckland who had all those Accuracy International rifles taken from a piss arse gun rack during a burglary.

One was worth about $11000 or so. In a wall rack. Met the minimum requirements, but that's cold comfort when the guns are all gone.

The guns in the safe weren't touched.

Security requirements for all guns should be increased.

Originally Posted by systolic

Whenever someone complains about security requirements, I think about that guy in North Auckland who had all those Accuracy International rifles taken from a piss arse gun rack during a burglary.

One was worth about $11000 or so. In a wall rack. Met the minimum requirements, but that's cold comfort when the guns are all gone.

The guns in the safe weren't touched.

Security requirements for all guns should be increased.

What do you propose the security requirements are for all guns?

Originally Posted by Beavis

What do you propose the security requirements are for all guns?

And that's the crux of the issue right there, how do you draw the line?

Metal box?

What number of locking pins?

How thick?

Would be nice to have actual data on what sort of security most guns are stolen from but I doubt anyone has collected it in detail

A safe screwed to the floor. Need tools / 10+mins to remove it. Something made from thick enough steel that you can't kick it open

Originally Posted by Maca49

Taff the law was changed, I think the current system is fine,maybe small tweaks but not wholesale changes. Security is something change in society has brought us to. But as said here, concentrate on the law breakers, give the some consequences to face. I'd vote for the return of the death sentence today for drugs, no tolerance at all, and extremely tough sentences for firearm offences.

I would legalise every Drug.Drug "control" just puts money in big Governments pockets.We have already established that if criminals want guns then they can get them,thats the same reason that a little Country at the bottom of the world has a drug problem.Supply and demand.

I think tighter security in conjunction with harder penalties for improper storage,harder penalties still for illegal firearms possession.

Originally Posted by res

And that's the crux of the issue right there, how do you draw the line?

Metal box?

What number of locking pins?

How thick?

Would be nice to have actual data on what sort of security most guns are stolen from but I doubt anyone has collected it in detail

If the Government subsidized the purchase of the gun box,then they would really be doing something about the problem.Over here you can't get your licence untill you submit a copy of the receipt of purchase of a approved gun safe.If you already have one in your house or your missus has one,you must document that fact and agree to the possibility of the Cops turning up to check it unannounced.

There is a standard already in the UK it's not difficult for them to copy it, safes are not expensive , the cost of a middle priced scope. Punishment for gun crimes and drugs / theft needs to be stronger, but that's not going to happen , if anything it's getting lighter.

Originally Posted by Maca49

I'd vote for the return of the death sentence today for drugs, no tolerance at all.

You'd be on your own with that one mate.

Originally Posted by 223nut

A safe screwed to the floor. Need tools / 10+mins to remove it. Something made from thick enough steel that you can't kick it open

The problem is you need to write a specification which isn't open to interpretation and quite clearly defines the performance expected.

Originally Posted by Taff

There is a standard already in the UK it's not difficult for them to copy it, safes are not expensive , the cost of a middle priced scope. Punishment for gun crimes and drugs / theft needs to be stronger, but that's not going to happen , if anything it's getting lighter.

Sorry, but the UK can keep it's laws in the UK thanks.

Originally Posted by Maca49

I'd vote for the return of the death sentence today for drugs

And eliminate most of the alcohol consuming, tax paying populace? No thanks.