Welcome guest, is this your first visit? Create Account now to join.
  • Login:

Welcome to the NZ Hunting and Shooting Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.

NZGR Black Watch


User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst 123456
Results 76 to 90 of 90
Like Tree68Likes

Thread: E cat safe/safe room options

  1. #76
    308
    308 is offline
    Member 308's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Wgtn
    Posts
    1,419
    As per the Striesand effect*, I think a national registration will cause people to panic buy and stockpile A-cat "untraceable" firearms that will persist for a long time

    Hell, there's still a few WW2 Luger pistols floating around that are totally illegal

    Keep in mind that the tools we use as firearms owners can easily persist in a working state for nigh on a hundred years if properly maintained - my back-up bush gun has 1942 stamped on the side and will go for another 50+ years if I don't let it rust


    Also, given police's track record on maintaining databases I flat out do not trust their competence or financial probity since the INCIS debacle - a national database will be too unwieldy, too leakable and probably poorly maintained and untimely in its updates or useability

    Otherwise, a fuckin great idea



    *https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect
    P38 and Jexla like this.

  2. #77
    Member Tommy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Auckland
    Posts
    3,320
    Quote Originally Posted by Savage1 View Post
    @Jexla,
    The problem with your idea is that it doesn't discourage a FAL holder from buying legally and selling to unlicenced people, which would be one of the main goals of a database.

    Decent firearms are actually worth more on the black market, paticulary amongst gangs who have huge amounts of cash available, pistols are 5-10k+. But yes if you're outside those circles it would be hard to get that kind of money for them.

    .
    Repercussions (such as prison and big fines)are the only deterrent to people who would do such a thing. The database would do nothing. The pool of black market firearms are where they would come from, if 60% compliance (what I've read Canada achieved after a quarter century), then at 40% of 3 million firearms, that's 1.2 million black market circulation.

    I still see no point in creating more bureaucracy that will do nothing to those who would flaunt it. Enforce the laws we already have.
    Ryan, 308 and Jexla like this.
    Identify your target beyond all doubt

  3. #78
    Member Beavis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    3,068
    Another thing to consider, people speak as if we have a massive problem with gun crime, but other than inner city shit kickers robbing liquor stores, and drug dealers having a stash of guns, where are all the shootings? Yes there are probably a reasonable amount of guns in criminal hands but by far and large they seem to be sitting unused, not a direct threat to the public at large.
    Ryan, Jexla and A330driver like this.

  4. #79
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    1,429
    Quote Originally Posted by Savage1 View Post
    @Jexla, the childish comment wasn't aimed at you or anybody else in particular, I actually think your style of post has somewhat improved lately but with a few still being unnecessarily obtuse, but I guess that's just your style.

    The problem with your idea is that it doesn't discourage a FAL holder from buying legally and selling to unlicenced people, which would be one of the main goals of a database.

    Decent firearms are actually worth more on the black market, paticulary amongst gangs who have huge amounts of cash available, pistols are 5-10k+. But yes if you're outside those circles it would be hard to get that kind of money for them.

    As for your final question @timattalon I'm not sure anyone could answer that with any kind of certainty.
    That is, in part, my point. I see it as a potential unforeseen (but not unforeseeable) consequence of enacting those law changes. I dont disagree that those changes were well intentioned, but I think the changes were made by people who did not have a complete understanding of firearms and the issues around them. A lot of these issues arise because of the lack of knowledge around firearms within the "anti-brigade" who are involved and refuse to understand because they "already know" everything. It is called the "Backfire effect" and can be very difficult to overcome. https://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/06...ckfire-effect/
    Ryan and Jexla like this.

  5. #80
    Member Sasquatch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    589
    I'd have to agree with what @Beavis said, gun crime in NZ is so minuscule you would wonder why it's even talked about... But unfortunately due to hidden agendas behind the mass media and govt it seems to be frequently "hyped up" & sensationalized in the media and the Police Association. Reason being and scrutiny of FAL holders because of this is all guessing games.

    Whether this all has a connection that ties to the UN civilian disarmament regime is probably no coincidence I might add.
    Ryan and Jexla like this.

  6. #81
    Semper excretia Ryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Ubique
    Posts
    4,694
    If there was a gang / general criminal related firearm problem that was as bad as the Police Association claims it to be, we'd be reading about countless gang members taking the room temperature challenge. They have not provided any statistical data to substantiate their claims.

    Gang members do not want to engage in massive gunfights because it will attract police attention and in a country this small, even gang members aren't stupid enough to do that, particularly with the surveillance techniques, technology and legislation available to Police. If gang members have MSSA and pistols, does this not prove that registration doesn't work?

    What then is the problem - and why are licensed firearm owners continually lined up for further "analysis" and "review" of firearm laws?

    Let's see some statistics from Police which show:

    1. Number of firearms stolen
    2. Types of firearms stolen
    3. Number of firearms recovered and can be connected to a crime (i.e. registered firearms)

    Then I'll be happy to analyse the data and consider if - in my opinion - further legislation is required.
    Last edited by Ryan; 18-02-2017 at 09:45 PM.
    timattalon and Sasquatch like this.

  7. #82
    308
    308 is offline
    Member 308's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Wgtn
    Posts
    1,419
    And if the cops say that they can run the current system properly now, why are there so many delays to people getting export permits?

    Why so many delays to people getting licenses and endorsements issued which is, after all, the most basic thing that they have to do?

    The cops get their best compliance rates IMO on the back of licensed owners' goodwill and yet they seem to want to keep chipping away at said goodwill
    Ryan and Koshogi like this.

  8. #83
    Member Beavis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    3,068

  9. #84
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    175
    Quote Originally Posted by Beavis View Post
    And the police wonder why nz shooters have growing animosity to them?
    Unbelievable.

  10. #85
    Semper excretia Ryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Ubique
    Posts
    4,694

  11. #86
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    87
    Hey fellas,

    Don't mean to necro this thread but it was somewhat better than starting a new thead and hopefully we get away from the discussion that has dominated this thread.

    If I've a out-house or hobbies room as you call it, situated in front of the house with access via a lockable security door screen and a deadbolt door lock There is a rear door but it has a deadbolt door lock. The exterior is weather-board in construction with insulation in the roof and walls, covered by gypboard/plaster. The out-house is on a concrete pad with carpet. The overall size is rectangle with 4 windows with security latches installed and the room is an empty slate with nothing inside.

    My question is reading the room's description, how would I make it compliant (room of stout construction) for my E & B category firearms? I can install grilles on the inside of the windows. I can alarm the outhouse. I will fix my safe into the concrete floor. Should I put concrete blocks with steel mesh to strengthen the entire house or should I just build a strong room inside the outhouse with the required specs so its a room locked within a room and keep my costs lower?

    Cheers for reading I know its quite late!

  12. #87
    308
    308 is offline
    Member 308's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Wgtn
    Posts
    1,419
    Sorry, is the outhouse attached to the house or standalone?

    16mm steel bars every 200mm in each direction epoxied into the window frames should do the windows and the fattest grade of steel flooring mesh (the big sheets) on the walls with 18mm ply screwed over it on the interior should meet your requirements but before doing the work I'd strongly suggest going to your local Arms Officer and showing them some pics of what and where and how you plan to do it and get their buy-in so that they are more likely to say yes

    Please keep us posted and put up pics as you go - good luck

  13. #88
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    87
    Quote Originally Posted by 308 View Post
    Sorry, is the outhouse attached to the house or standalone?

    16mm steel bars every 200mm in each direction epoxied into the window frames should do the windows and the fattest grade of steel flooring mesh (the big sheets) on the walls with 18mm ply screwed over it on the interior should meet your requirements but before doing the work I'd strongly suggest going to your local Arms Officer and showing them some pics of what and where and how you plan to do it and get their buy-in so that they are more likely to say yes

    Please keep us posted and put up pics as you go - good luck

    Yes it a standalone outhouse by itself. Do I need to put flooring mesh on the ceiling as well? The roof is just a standard house roof with potential some space in the roof. Agree with going to see the AO but I figured I have a plan in mind so he knows I have given it some thought.

  14. #89
    308
    308 is offline
    Member 308's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Wgtn
    Posts
    1,419
    I'd armour the ceiling same as the walls - there used to be a crew of burglars that specialized in gaining entry by peeling back a bit of the roofing..

  15. #90
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    87
    Quote Originally Posted by 308 View Post
    I'd armour the ceiling same as the walls - there used to be a crew of burglars that specialized in gaining entry by peeling back a bit of the roofing..
    Thanks mate. I see a potential issue with anchoring the safe to the wall i.e. not knowing where the studs might be since I didn't build the outhouse. Alternatively I could build a strong-room within the outhouse to save on total costs?

 

 

Similar Threads

  1. FS: Arma-safe 6-8 gun safe
    By dale in forum Buy, Sell or Swap
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 04-02-2017, 06:30 PM
  2. WTB: A-cat safe
    By brodster in forum Buy, Sell or Swap
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-01-2017, 05:13 PM
  3. FS: 3-Gun Safe - Never Used
    By Barb K in forum Buy, Sell or Swap
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-10-2016, 02:44 PM
  4. How many 243's in the safe is enough?
    By gadgetman in forum Firearms, Optics and Accessories
    Replies: 78
    Last Post: 11-07-2013, 03:21 PM
  5. E-Cat gun safe
    By Burb122 in forum Firearms, Optics and Accessories
    Replies: 61
    Last Post: 19-04-2013, 09:28 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Welcome to NZ Hunting and Shooting Forums! We see you're new here, or arn't logged in. Create an account, and Login for full access including our FREE BUY and SELL section Register NOW!!