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Thread: E cat safe/safe room options

  1. #76
    308
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    As per the Striesand effect*, I think a national registration will cause people to panic buy and stockpile A-cat "untraceable" firearms that will persist for a long time

    Hell, there's still a few WW2 Luger pistols floating around that are totally illegal

    Keep in mind that the tools we use as firearms owners can easily persist in a working state for nigh on a hundred years if properly maintained - my back-up bush gun has 1942 stamped on the side and will go for another 50+ years if I don't let it rust


    Also, given police's track record on maintaining databases I flat out do not trust their competence or financial probity since the INCIS debacle - a national database will be too unwieldy, too leakable and probably poorly maintained and untimely in its updates or useability

    Otherwise, a fuckin great idea



    *https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect
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  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savage1 View Post
    @Jexla,
    The problem with your idea is that it doesn't discourage a FAL holder from buying legally and selling to unlicenced people, which would be one of the main goals of a database.

    Decent firearms are actually worth more on the black market, paticulary amongst gangs who have huge amounts of cash available, pistols are 5-10k+. But yes if you're outside those circles it would be hard to get that kind of money for them.

    .
    Repercussions (such as prison and big fines)are the only deterrent to people who would do such a thing. The database would do nothing. The pool of black market firearms are where they would come from, if 60% compliance (what I've read Canada achieved after a quarter century), then at 40% of 3 million firearms, that's 1.2 million black market circulation.

    I still see no point in creating more bureaucracy that will do nothing to those who would flaunt it. Enforce the laws we already have.
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  3. #78
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    Another thing to consider, people speak as if we have a massive problem with gun crime, but other than inner city shit kickers robbing liquor stores, and drug dealers having a stash of guns, where are all the shootings? Yes there are probably a reasonable amount of guns in criminal hands but by far and large they seem to be sitting unused, not a direct threat to the public at large.
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  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savage1 View Post
    @Jexla, the childish comment wasn't aimed at you or anybody else in particular, I actually think your style of post has somewhat improved lately but with a few still being unnecessarily obtuse, but I guess that's just your style.

    The problem with your idea is that it doesn't discourage a FAL holder from buying legally and selling to unlicenced people, which would be one of the main goals of a database.

    Decent firearms are actually worth more on the black market, paticulary amongst gangs who have huge amounts of cash available, pistols are 5-10k+. But yes if you're outside those circles it would be hard to get that kind of money for them.

    As for your final question @timattalon I'm not sure anyone could answer that with any kind of certainty.
    That is, in part, my point. I see it as a potential unforeseen (but not unforeseeable) consequence of enacting those law changes. I dont disagree that those changes were well intentioned, but I think the changes were made by people who did not have a complete understanding of firearms and the issues around them. A lot of these issues arise because of the lack of knowledge around firearms within the "anti-brigade" who are involved and refuse to understand because they "already know" everything. It is called the "Backfire effect" and can be very difficult to overcome. https://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/06...ckfire-effect/
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  5. #80
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    I'd have to agree with what @Beavis said, gun crime in NZ is so minuscule you would wonder why it's even talked about... But unfortunately due to hidden agendas behind the mass media and govt it seems to be frequently "hyped up" & sensationalized in the media and the Police Association. Reason being and scrutiny of FAL holders because of this is all guessing games.

    Whether this all has a connection that ties to the UN civilian disarmament regime is probably no coincidence I might add.
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  6. #81
    Semper excretia Ryan's Avatar
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    If there was a gang / general criminal related firearm problem that was as bad as the Police Association claims it to be, we'd be reading about countless gang members taking the room temperature challenge. They have not provided any statistical data to substantiate their claims.

    Gang members do not want to engage in massive gunfights because it will attract police attention and in a country this small, even gang members aren't stupid enough to do that, particularly with the surveillance techniques, technology and legislation available to Police. If gang members have MSSA and pistols, does this not prove that registration doesn't work?

    What then is the problem - and why are licensed firearm owners continually lined up for further "analysis" and "review" of firearm laws?

    Let's see some statistics from Police which show:

    1. Number of firearms stolen
    2. Types of firearms stolen
    3. Number of firearms recovered and can be connected to a crime (i.e. registered firearms)

    Then I'll be happy to analyse the data and consider if - in my opinion - further legislation is required.
    Last edited by Ryan; 18-02-2017 at 10:45 PM.
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  7. #82
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    And if the cops say that they can run the current system properly now, why are there so many delays to people getting export permits?

    Why so many delays to people getting licenses and endorsements issued which is, after all, the most basic thing that they have to do?

    The cops get their best compliance rates IMO on the back of licensed owners' goodwill and yet they seem to want to keep chipping away at said goodwill
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  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beavis View Post
    And the police wonder why nz shooters have growing animosity to them?
    Unbelievable.

  10. #85
    Semper excretia Ryan's Avatar
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