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Thread: Licensing and mental illness

  1. #31
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    Much to think about here as firearms owners . . the guts of our system really is "we're all part of the system" and we all have a responsibility to all other firearms owners specifically and society in general to act if we think someone may harm another person with (or without for that matter) a firearm.

    Having come across one violent death involving a firearm (that I couldn't have done anything about) it certainly sharpened up my awareness and determination to act should any similar situation present itself.

    The mention of the French system is very interesting, with a relatively high number of firearms and firearms owners, their level of firearms incidents (suicides/murders etc as opposed to terrorism) is low (as I understand it) compared to the US and many other countries. The US really is not a firearms problem as such, its societal and goes very much along the lines of "I have a problem, power/force/violence is the way to solve problems".. The French are proactive in terms of mental health/anti-societal issues at both a police and civilian level.

    The guts of it is that we all need to be alert of those among us with firearms who are not well or in a bad situation and as Mikee did, take some action. There will almost certainly never be the "right thing to do" so ones popularity is always going to be at stake.
    Last edited by Tentman; 30-10-2015 at 11:57 AM.
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by res View Post
    If your (a) who I think you are, and (b) it's the farcebook group I'm thinking off-I wondered why your name had gone gray
    Yes well, there are some good ppl in there but also some not so great. In effect I am a "libtard" who loves guns, odd I suppose. I just got/get a bit tired taking it from libtards and then the libtard haters, neither are logical or balanced IMHO.
    res likes this.
    "I do not wish to be a pawn or canon fodder on the whims of MY Government"

  3. #33
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    @Tentman "The French are proactive in terms of mental health/anti-societal issues at both a police and civilian level." so is NZ (police) I think, ie despite our overly "lax" gun laws we have low incidents of homicide etc and they are getting lower at or exceeding the drops achieved by say OZ who have stricter laws. Ergo its not hard to conclude that really the argument is not about gun laws but how the issues leading to such incidents are prevented. From what I can read the NZ police have the right idea.
    "I do not wish to be a pawn or canon fodder on the whims of MY Government"

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by steven View Post
    Yes well, there are some good ppl in there but also some not so great. In effect I am a "libtard" who loves guns, odd I suppose. I just got/get a bit tired taking it from libtards and then the libtard haters, neither are logical or balanced IMHO.
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  5. #35
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    well gents -yesterday i had to attend the funeral of a bloke in our nursing team ,a fellow mental health professional. who a week ago after a prolonged period of god knows what ,stepped into a caravan and put a bullet through his own head. g was an avid firearms owner and user, a good nurse and a decent bloke ,but life the old bitch got on top of him untilat some moment he decided that was it .finito.
    My point-quite a few of us have been mulling this over and even we as mental health professionals-highly bloody trained at that-had no inkling of his intentions-some thought him maybe a little quiet ,but we knew he had some issues but was sorting these. not until yesterday was the full tragic scenario revealed which led to his utterly pragmatic solution.Oh yes he planned this to the nth detail and left his sister a will which explicitly instructed her on how to deal with the aftermath.
    take it from me -no anti, politician or policeman will ever come up with the so called solution to this perceived firearms problems whilst human arses point to the ground,cause as sure as christ made little apples if one invents a set of rules .the next bastard along will find the loopholes.
    as for main stream media -social conscience -theyve none ,they are whores at the altar of ratings!
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  6. #36
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    Thats not good...

    Tell me, why do people shoot themselves when they could park up in a car with a hose in the window... do you think...? A fella like this who has planned to the ninth degree doesn't consider the traumatic effort of shooting himself on other people?

  7. #37
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    Gassing yourself takes time. Time in which you can chicken out. A bullet takes half a second and there is usually no backing out once the trigger is pulled.
    Why do people that can't take advice, insist on giving it?

  8. #38
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    Yep that might be true for some... I guess... Being a hunter though, I think I would prefer the gas...

    Doubly horrible for those finding them though

  9. #39
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    No suicide is pretty mate. Even car exhaust is ugly to come across.
    Why do people that can't take advice, insist on giving it?

  10. #40
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    Lot of pissing round to gas yourself and you have time to think as your sucking up the shit? Bullet is over, hopefully, once you pull the trigger, I believe there is a way to do it with the correct barrel placement of a .22 that is instant death and doesn't disfigure the face or eye balls. Had a mate a few yes did it he was in an open casket with no damage. I prefer BIG red buses myself. It's sad but you must be in a dark space to kill yourself, problem it is a temporary space normally, I'm sure my mate had plenty to live for he just didn't open up a talk about it! And showed no outward signs, I felt very angry with him for what he did, sorry for him but not a lot of sympathy, taught me to tell those you love your probs, keep it open and assess changes in those around you,
    Last edited by Maca49; 03-11-2015 at 11:32 AM.
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    Boom, cough,cough,cough

  11. #41
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    I know a few people that have taken or attempted to take their own lives. I used to think they were weak. Having worked a lot lately with people with mental health expertise I am now pretty sure if they are otherwise healthy, they are genuinely sick at the time they decide to do it.

    I also always thought that people who are terminal and want to end things have courage.

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    Do what ya want! Ya will anyway.

  12. #42
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    I've seen plenty... and I agree that people must be sick/desolate when they do this.

    It can be flippant to just say, we need to be open about stuff.... pride and shame, expectations and even occupational requirements often conspire against those who would like to be, or might know that they need to be...

    Try being a pilot and admitting depression aye.. or not wanting to lose your firearms license... the thought of those sort of losses isn't going to help with the issues

    Its hard to know how to realistically bridge these gaps with people.... heck I don't even know how to do that for myself... how am I going to know how to identify and help another individuals private trauma?
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  13. #43
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    gents as i said -I dont know .with 40+yrs in the mental health field
    yes Im taught all the so called risk factors ,how to collate &assess that information,but ever elusive is that single trigger factor.
    Me I subscribe to the theory that often suicide is an impulsive spur of the moment,a readily available escape from the maelstrom one is in ,an instant nirvana etc etc entirely selfcentred as one inevitably is.
    Alas the reality of modern society is ugly -most are simply too immersed in their own issues and keeping heads above water ,without taking someone elses burdens on board.
    Alas often as nurses we are so immersed in others burdens its often too late to get to our own before the shit hits the fan.In fact anyone dealing with humans in adversity probably shares this same trait.
    In this case and in my direct experience this is only the second suicide ive ever seen that was 100%coldly preplanned.
    Furthermore with this pro euthanasia debate currently to the fore I sense it may also see a rise in these sorts of actions.
    Myself honestly -Id be a bloody fool to deny I ve been privy to a few over the years ,buts thats a professional issue for me to deal with and it will remain that way.
    Oh yeas ,whilst im about it -drug overdose is the most popular modus operandi ,very effective if rescuers have no idea of whats taken and how much. Paracetomol -jees that made me laugh -i was was taught what constituted a lethal dose as a strudent nurse in 1972.
    Weedkillers&industrial chemicals are also more popular than most realise.
    Creativity .before Gs episode my last involved a guy who knotted his socks together made a noose knotted one end and jammed it in his close room door before stepping off his wee plastic rubbish tin.we didnt find him till we opened his door and he fell out dead.Oh 15 mins before Id had a yarn with him in passing -happy as larry ,no probs. what snapped -you tell me ,cause I still dont know.
    OK so where from here ?well you see we all are possessed of personality -its the way we function each individually .its gets us trust ,driving licenses ,firearms licenses ....etc etc etc
    as society says well he or she seems competent to do this. likeable sensible ,a trustworthy member of the group
    oops for one fleeting moment something clicks in the "trustworthy" and whoa devastation ensues tragedy ,carnage ,and society says someone or something must pay the price.
    ?????/-does making even more rules combat the situation or does it merely make the so called responsible ones feel smug via" there we know it all?????"
    Last edited by kotuku; 03-11-2015 at 02:19 PM.

  14. #44
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    The one thing here in this thread is we are basically all thinking down the same track, we all have a lack of time, always to busy, always wanting some time to ourselves, and dont want other peoples burdens The funny thing is I dont want to retire out of the race at 66, yet I know heaps of people that at 65 have hung up their gloves an taken the backseat, was thinking my old man at 66 had been retired for 8 yrs. I think my family is my driving force and im lucky with my set up. It will be interesting when the last one finally gets their shit together and can stand strongly on their own two feet in a couple of months if that sense of being a backstop can cease and Ill be free of those thoughts. It may change my attitude to slowing down. But I think a bit of stress and hard work is good for the mind and body and I like my toys, and death in any form would be a bastard inconvenience!!
    Boom, cough,cough,cough

  15. #45
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    I recently saw a quote written by an isolated man, almost a hermit, who knew he was about to die alone. He wrote; "happiness is sharing".

    So much sadness is caused by isolation of people, associates, relatives, or even friends by persons afraid of recognising and accepting the other persons right to a point of view, their feelings and their right to live a little outside the dictates of perceived political correctness and then actually encouraging others to isolate or not have close associations with that poor person.

    The manipulators of society feed on this trait. They break some people and cause others to retrench, retreat and hide. It may be true that social media like farcebook et al are more lethal than firearms.
    kotuku likes this.

 

 

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