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Thread: More stupidity

  1. #1
    Member keneff's Avatar
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    More stupidity

    As per the title. Teen's death while duck shooting 'avoidable' Dunno who is the most stupid - dad for letting the boys out with guns, unsupervised - the kid who somehow shot himself, or the Coroner, who seems to think that stupidity and lack of responsibility can be regulated away. We already have the Firearms Act, The Arms Code and, supposedly, "common sense" which is obviously not that common. But these people "in authority" all seem to be control freaks.
    Last edited by keneff; 23-03-2017 at 09:37 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by keneff View Post
    As per the title. Teen's death while duck shooting 'avoidable' Dunno who is the most stupid - dad for letting the boys out with guns, unsupervised - the kid who somehow shot himself, or the Coroner, who seems to think that stupidity and lack of responsibility can be regulated away. We already have the Firearms Act, The Arms Code and, supposedly, "common sense" which is obviously not that common. But these people "in authority" all seem to be control freaks.
    I love how a teenager shooting himself requires a look at "identifying your taget" as the coroner asks. I am pretty sure everyone in the Mai Mai knew he was not a duck. Aksing in this case for a look at what is considered "supervision" or safety procedures with Teens and shotguns etc fair enough but how the F__K does this situation have anything to do with identifying a target???????? Did the coroner study muppetry at college? Was that even a course?

    My understanding of supervision is the person supervising must be "in control" in in a position to take control of the firearm if the person using it is not licensed. To me this means that if you are supervising someone you are in close enough proximity to be able to stop the firearm from being pointed or discharged in any manner other than what is intended. I do not see how one adult can be responsible for supervising three teenagers with shotguns and maintain this level of control over those guns. In that respect I think the cops may need the charges relating to lack of proper supervision and the consequences of those actions to be looked at as in the other part of the coroners request.

    Finally I only saw what was reported on the news so I apologise if the facts I got are wrong. I work with statistics and unfortunately I know the chances of the media being "mistaken" are very possible.....
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  3. #3
    Member Boaraxa's Avatar
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    Pretty supervised is arms length away ?

  4. #4
    Member Sasquatch's Avatar
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    I found it interesting that the opening line for this story reported last night mentioned about re-writing the act...

  5. #5
    Ex stick thrower madjon_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquatch View Post
    I found it interesting that the opening line for this story reported last night mentioned about re-writing the act...
    And it was 2 years ago.Are the coroner's that busy??..
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  6. #6
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    Supervision is a grey area.
    Go to any secondary schools clay bird event. A large percentage of the shooters are not licenced. Very seldom will you see supervision to the letter of the law ie within arms length.
    Competence is a crucial factor. Maybe in this case the teenagers were competent, but made a mistake.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7mmwsm View Post
    Supervision is a grey area.
    Go to any secondary schools clay bird event. A large percentage of the shooters are not licenced. Very seldom will you see supervision to the letter of the law ie within arms length.
    Competence is a crucial factor. Maybe in this case the teenagers were competent, but made a mistake.
    That may be, but any clay shoot we have (once a week) if there is an unlicensed (or its someone's first time at the club even and they are licensed) we have a range office or experienced member stand beside EACH of these shooters to assist with safety /supervise and provide any other assistance / guidance that may be needed.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7mmwsm View Post
    Supervision is a grey area.
    Go to any secondary schools clay bird event. A large percentage of the shooters are not licenced. Very seldom will you see supervision to the letter of the law ie within arms length.
    Competence is a crucial factor. Maybe in this case the teenagers were competent, but made a mistake.
    Letter of the law? Arms Length?

    Where does it say anywhere in the law how close supervision is? The law says "immediate supervision".

    We have enough cops making their own definitions, without shooters doing it too.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by madjon_ View Post
    And it was 2 years ago.Are the coroner's that busy??..
    I'm pretty sure the coroner has to wait for any criminal court cases to finish before he can make a finding.

    Two years through the criminal courts where there was a death involved would be quick. I've had cases go longer than that through the employment court just to fire a employee.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by systolic View Post
    Letter of the law? Arms Length?

    Where does it say anywhere in the law how close supervision is? The law says "immediate supervision".

    We have enough cops making their own definitions, without shooters doing it too.
    My sincerest apologies @systolic.
    How foolish of me to included the term "letter of the law" when I knew you would read my post.
    Although it is generally accepted that immediate supervision means within arms length and ready to take control should the need arise.
    But perhaps, with your wealth of knowledge on such matters, you could fill the rest of us in on what is acceptable under the heading of supervision.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7mmwsm View Post
    My sincerest apologies @systolic.
    How foolish of me to included the term "letter of the law" when I knew you would read my post.
    Although it is generally accepted that immediate supervision means within arms length and ready to take control should the need arise.
    But perhaps, with your wealth of knowledge on such matters, you could fill the rest of us in on what is acceptable under the heading of supervision.
    Umm. No.

    YOU are the one saying "immediate supervision means within arms length and ready to take control should the need arise".

    You should have to back it up with facts like the law or regulations to prove your point.

    I've already said the law doesn't define immediate supervision. It's up to you to prove otherwise.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by systolic View Post
    I'm pretty sure the coroner has to wait for any criminal court cases to finish before he can make a finding.

    .
    Surely the criminal courts would need the coroners " cause of death " findings to be able to proceed with criminal charges . For sure the guy died of a gunshot wound but was it deliberate , accidental discharge whilst being handled , accidental in that the gun fell over and discharged , or a malfunction of the gun . Otherwise we could get the court convicting someone of murder and then the coroner finding that the fire arm malfunctioned ???
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    Quote Originally Posted by systolic View Post
    Umm. No.

    YOU are the one saying "immediate supervision means within arms length and ready to take control should the need arise".

    You should have to back it up with facts like the law or regulations to prove your point.

    I've already said the law doesn't define immediate supervision. It's up to you to prove otherwise.
    supervision is the act of watching over one . I would have thought that supervising another shooter would allow for some distance between the parties , the whole point in stalking a duck pond ( for example ) involves covering any escape route and having the involved parties at arms length doesn't really work . I guess too that whilst the supervisor must keep fire arm safety in mind ... are we not also teaching the young un's good hunting techniques . To me direct supervision means in sight and within earshot. And here is the issue .... what most peeps would consider to be fair supervision may not appease the courts after the disaster. Tiz a sad thing when one is accidently shot but it doesn't mean that in every case someone has to face charges ( the police have demonstrated this brilliantly )
    Vegetarians Bah !! . If god didn't want us to eat animals he wouldn't have made them out of meat ! .

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by systolic View Post
    Umm. No.

    YOU are the one saying "immediate supervision means within arms length and ready to take control should the need arise".

    You should have to back it up with facts like the law or regulations to prove your point.

    I've already said the law doesn't define immediate supervision. It's up to you to prove otherwise.
    Quite frankly, I can't be bothered.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7mmwsm View Post
    Quite frankly, I can't be bothered.
    Because you know you are wrong and I am right.
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