OK fellas, who has got a photo of the 162gr 7mm???
Mooseman has sent me the 200gr .30cal... I have the 6.5 143 gr.
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OK fellas, who has got a photo of the 162gr 7mm???
Mooseman has sent me the 200gr .30cal... I have the 6.5 143 gr.
Thanks @7mm Rem Mag but its sectioned bullet photos we're after.
I've had some pretty average results with the 200gr eldx in 300 win mag too. Way too many runners with the bang on shot placement. Shocking when your 16inch 308 is folding them better than a 300 win mag. Got rid of them now.
Sierra Pro-hunters are my choice, and a big stag full of adrenalin, can go a long way if not shot in the spine or head, or a shoulder taken out. I know Sierras can be a bit frangible at speed, close-up, but it works in your favour if shot-placement is good. Then further-out, they expand nicely. I havent tried their Game-Kings, which theoretically should be better at the longer ranges. A tight-budget means I have to make what I've got work, and its working so far. A through-shot on the neck, would have kicked-in the adrenalin, and 4-intact-legs would get him a long-way depending on terrain .They can go an easy 100m with no heart left even.
Yeah i've had the misfortune of relying on the 162 gr ELD-X also the 168gr Berger vld both are supposed to be used and bang flop but in my case both have been at time most unreliable at best i was told that these projectiles were designed for long distance but this is not said when you buy them i have resorted back to the old soft nose fl base projectiles and find they kill very effectively my rifle is also 7mm mag i think some times the changes in bullet structure are unable to detect any positives so they presume they do certain things but it's actually unproven and probably only a sales ploy i only use i projectile now and it kills perfectly and its a Hornady 154gr sp and in my gun it kills better than all the ELD-X,-ELD-M,VLDs
combined so i'll stay with the 154gr sp for good and they're accurate also i've shot scrub bulls with this projectile and stopped them in their tracks so these projectiles are very capable
How's it going rigga haven't seen you on the forum of late. Good to hear the 154 SP are still working good in your 7mm Mag. Interesting thread this one as there are cases for and against the ELD X bullets. Me I like them but then I aren't chasing Scrub Bulls.
Yeah G'day Mooseman i've been a little busy mate yeah those ELD-X work for some and not others i'm starting to think caliber may have something to do with it and weight we have blokes over here that absolutely swear by them then they get a bad one and that is my point unreliable a bad shot for me could mean my butt torn to shreds by a wounded bull
I haven't heard of any 6.5's or 7-08's the smaller calibers having problems with the x's mainly the heavier calibers but a bloke told me the other day that if you push them 2800fps and over at close range then there is more of a chance of them failing at close range just something to ponder and there maybe something in it as most larger calibers run from 2900fps to around 3300fps smaller calibers do to but they're a smaller caliber smaller weight which may make a difference but one thing is i won't be going back to them the 168gr Bergers were exactly the same some got good results some got bad i had a complete pass through on a chest of a bull at 280yds a hole the size of my pointer finger both sides yet i shot a wild dog and tore it to bits at 200yds you'd think the tougher meat would have opened the projectile up sooner than the soft ya know since using the old sp i can't figure why the people are going away from them they slam dunk from wild bulls to wild dogs with authority i couldn't imagine going back to x's or vld's also the sp is deadly accurate more so than both the others and more forgiving on seating depth the others might be better out to 1000yds or more but i'm knocking w'dogs @650yds who can ethicly hunt past that i know some do but 700yds would probably ease me up good to have a chat mate cheers
An eld-x or VLD would be the last projectile I would use on a scrub bull. I'd be using a bonded projectile like a 160 accubond or a Barnes solid copper in 160gr or bigger. Swift A-frames would also be a good choice.
When I had a 7mm mag I used 168 bergers or 162 a-max past 300yds and had really quick bang flop kills. Inside 300yds I used the 160 accubond with good results.
@stug
I suppose at bush ranges there's no correction in the point of aim needed to use the different pills?
I sighted in for the long range load and then checked where the accubond hit. It was less than 1" from my longrange zero, so out to 300 yds didn't make a lot of difference on a deer sized target.
two of my centrefires will print any load within a playing card at hundy yards..... if youv been a very good boy your long range/open country load will print 3" high at hundy and the bigger/fatter/slower/heavier load will be bang on at same range..works in the .308 and poohseventy.
They sure aren't to be messed with. In .30 cal the 200gr Woodleighs were popular in QLD but they were expensive, but not as expensive as having an angry bull shove a feral longhorn up your rear end. Also used 225gr GameKings in a .35 Whelan Ruger M77 which was a fun rifle, that was not an argument the bull was gonna win... assuming of course you put it in the right place which isn't as straightforward as it sounds with feral cattle.
I am reminded of the time we went out helping cull scrub cattle with a pro near Limmen, was amazed to see he used .308 A-Max. But then he only ever head shot them, he wasn't going to mess with chest shots going wrong in the bush. After a butt clenchingly bad experience with scrubbies on the Nymboida River, me and The Wife were inclined to agree with him, personally I would do everything possible not to make one more angry than he already is.
https://i.vgy.me/LlRHFz.png
Anyway that's all off topic... has anyone got a 7 mm 162 grain ELDX that they would like to section for us? Nick is hopefully going to have a crack later this week but as anyone else also got one they'll file down for us to take a look?
I could pull a loaded round apart and file it down if you are stuck @Flyblown.
Yep Stug you're right the x's and the vld's weren't my best choice when i first bought my 7mag but they were all i could get at the time where i am and the shop owner said they were new and perfect for what i wanted them for it didn't take me long to find out otherwise so i gave them all away and started looking i tried the barnes TSX 160 gr they shot ok but i had major
fowling problems after awhile so got rid of them i tried grand slams but they were too expensive but used them up while i looked for something else then an old shooter from here told me to try the old sp's 154gr so i did and at first i was loading them and sitting them close to the lands as all the rest but i could only get one and a half inch group at best so i told him and he said get them away from the lands and load them to spec length so i did and bingo clover leaf they have a flat base which i've found both my sakos like 22-250 and the 7mag
I thought i may have trouble with the bulls with the projectiles being on the light side but no such problem they go deep and hard exactly what i was looking for and cheaper than most :thumbsup:
Great scrub bull stories rigga and flyblown. Sounds like the basis for another thread.
Interested to see the sectioned bullets.
Good study on the bullets posted by flyblown. Might have been more favourable to the other bullets if measured at 4 or 500m. No doubt the eld x is perfect from 150 to 800 from that cartridge anyway.
I thought for scrub bulls at scrub ranges you wouldn't even bother going past a big heavy blunt nose going slow?
Attachment 109232
Any feedback or experience with the 7mm 150 ELDx's ? Thinking of playing with these in 7mm08 and 284 as an all round solution .... up close to 500 yards.
Can't imagine they'd be much different to the 145 eldx I'm using in the 270 bang flops from 140 out to 450 yards no issues so far pushing them at 2950fps.
Never had a runner yet for several animals shot
I used them as single load in 284. Never shot anything but they printed nice and I thought were a happy medium of bc and speed in 284.
Would like to try them in mates 708 but he slams them so well with the 139sst, he won't have me change a thing
@Puffin
Anyway that's all off topic... has anyone got a 7 mm 162 grain ELDX that they would like to section for us? Nick is hopefully going to have a crack later this week but as anyone else also got one they'll file down for us to take a look?
I will go pull one from a loaded round and file it down and send it to Flyblown, will take a while.
A mate of mine has been going on and on about how good the 120 ttsx in the 7RM. I loaded some up and have shot 3 stags with them now, one 14 pointer on Monday at 200 yards and I have never seen an animal drop so fast! I am using RL22 to get 3400fps, they are like laser beams out to 400 yards much like a bigger magnum version of the 22-250 - real flat shooting. Going to use the 120's for the 0 to 400 yard shots for a while longer and see how they go, but so far so good.
Just got out of the bush hunting Sika. Shot two young stags using the 162 ELDX from my 284 at about 2620fps from the muzzle. First one was a neck shot and sacked it. Second was a low shoulder/heart shot. Huge amount of internal damage but did not look close to exiting the other side.
G'day Gkp mate what was your barrel like after using the ttsx I used both the160gr ttsx and the160gr tsx and both left my barrel filthy be interesting to know how they left your barrel Cheers
@Flyblown how are those cross sectioned ELD X bullets coming along, need anything else to do the write up?
Yeeessss... waiting the the wife to do her bit. I just hit her up about it, and maybe, hopefully, she'll do it tonight. It is possible we will need some slightly better photos, we'll see. Watch this space!
yes the TTSX &TSX need to be going fast to work right.....in all calibres this is the same...and not all projectiles work the same even in the same calibre,some open up way faster/larger than others.
this is why I chose 50grn in the .223 to gain a wee tad more speed.
funny how we are discussing monos and ELDs in same thread....they are polar opposites.
The Ttsx is certainly not perfect. Shot a buck today in the chest facing front on and it exited the rear end in a 2 inch hole. Poor Bastard! I think the eld x would of done a far better job in this instance.
It's a hard road finding the perfect projectile!!
Imagine how boring it would be if there was a universally accepted perfect projectile @Gkp. What the hell would we argue about?!
maybe...but you mightnt have had much buck left to chew on.... I recall shooting a red hind with a 130grn ballistic tip...through chest and out rear ham with a saucer sized hole...she still ran a hundred yards....both cases would probable be MUCH better it projectile had hit bone on way in...
Attachment 109840
It would be better to have all four bullets in the hand to get a really good look at them, and have them in one photo, but this is a start.
I haven't looked at it long enough to decide if I can see any difference.
So to ask the question again - what are the reported problems with the 7mm 162gr in the 7mm Rem Mag - over expansion, or under expansion? Over or under penetration?
Too many variables to be definitive with this kind of thing of course - point of impact, terminal velocity and angle of trajectory through the animal being the important ones.
I am seeing a thicker jacket on the ogive on the 7mm than the 6.5mm, and it looks a bit thicker than the 178gr .308 as well.
Gonna sleep on it. Not sure the pics provide an explanation of why we're hearing about problems with the 7mm pill in the 7mm Rem Mag. Anyone got some ideas?
@Mooseman thanks for the kick up the bum, which was transferred to The Wife, thanks Wife!
First up thanks to Mrs Flyblown for putting the bullets together on the computer and Flyblown for the idea of cross sectioning the ELD X bullets. What strikes me is that the jacket walls look quite thick, when you compare these to a A Max jacket it is quite noticeable the difference in thickness. I also cut a 162 gr A Max and a 150 gr 7 mm ELD X but I don't think the pictures came out that well. When I compare the ELD X and A Max 162 gr 7 mm bullets there is a big difference, We all know that the A Max worked well especially as the distance increased so I can't understand why the ELD X would be opening up to quickly.
On most of the cross sectioned bullets it was very noticeable that they lacked the interlock ring or it was very small , you can clearly see it on the 6.5 bullet and it was visible on the 7 mm 150 gr bullet but not so on the others.
I think the initial question was that the bullet was over expanding but looking at the bullets they do sport substantial jackets so it shouldn't be an issue.
The 6.5 bullet does have a thinner jacket on the ogive, weather this is a problem at the velocity they are mostly used at I don't think so, we certainly haven't had a problem with them in a 6.5 X 55 and 260 at 2750 fps.
As @Flyblown stated a lot of problem comes more from bullet placement rather than the bullet its self.
It will be interesting to hear other people's thoughts.
I'm not sure its the projectile that's no good more to the point to me they seem too unpredictable some do the job some go right through and some explode when the hit a rib mind you we're talking large animals
I have shot wild dogs and the 162 eld-x penciled straight through dog did eventually stop but not a good kill for such a large caliber on such a medium size animal I've never shot deer so I can't comment on them
I push all my 7mm bullets around 2950fps I get the best performance and accuracy around that so I just leave it there although I tweek it a little from time to time I doubt we'll ever see a perfect all round projectile as there are too many variables like close, long distance quarter on shots wind weight caliber and the list goes on but what I have noticed over here and the little I've read on this forum is that the 6.5 seems to like the eld-x around the 140gr it just stones the animal maybe it's an exceptional bullet for that caliber, I didn't like it in my 7mm mag but that doesn't mean others don't like it in theirs as they probably shoot slightly smaller animals than I do with the bulls
Yesterday I shot a hind with a 162 a-max at 390 yds. Muzzle velocity was 2750, I hit her 1/3 of the way up her shoulder straight above her leg. The exit was down low in front of her opposite leg. Exit hole was about 1.5-2cm. She dropped on the spot. I was a little surprised how small the exit was, but it obviously did the damage inside.
A lot of projectile issues aren't projectile issues, often shot placement.
I think we all agree that the A Max and ELD X at range are good performers its on those closer shots that there may be a problem. Looking at the cross sectioned bullets they look heavy enough in the jackets to be reliable at closer range, the true test is shooting animals a various ranges to get a better idea of them . As Stug said a lot of the issues are probably bullet placement issues.