Thread: 17" barrel SMLE powder

I'm about to get back into reloading after a hiatus of about 25-years. First off I want to begin handloading for my old SMLE (for hunting). I'll be using a Lee Loader (with scales etc) for it as I plan only to neck resize until each case needs a full length resize. I will be buying a press etc again as I stupidly thought I wouldn't handload again and sold my Lyman press etc (dumb arse!)

I will be loading for my 223 and a 7mm-08 too.

I used to use the old three-oh as an open sighted pig gun (and the occasional deer) so used Hornady 174-gr round noses loaded way down; I think I used 4895? Anyhoo...... I'm planning to use 150gr Speer, Sierra, or Hornady projectiles depending on what shoots the best. It is accurate with Highland 150-gr factory ammo. But.... What powder would be best to use through it's 17" barrel? It wasn't a very big concern before as it was loaded at minimum to minimise meat damage etc.

It seems ton after a bit of research that AR2206H or 2208 maybe the go-to powders? As an aside; my 223 is a Howa mini so has a pretty short barrel too.

Thanks in advance for any help received

I wasn't sure what powder to optimise performance in a shorter barrel

Quickload predicts you'll get about 2550 fps from the 17" with max loads (for a 303) - which is pretty useful really ( a cobber has shot nearly a hundred deer with a 308 with a 165 at that velocity).

However most of the powders that will give you that speed will be blowing 5-10% out the end of the barrel un-burnt - which usually predicates a magnificent muzzle flash.

If you trade off a little velocity - down to say 2450-2500 and use a powder like Vihtavuori N135, ADI AR 2219 or H322 you'll get nearly 100% burn and lower muzzle pressure = much more pleasant to shoot. These powders usually work well in the 223 as well

Greetings Bumblefoot,
I think we must be cousins. I also started to handload for the .303 recently after swearing of it in the late seventies. Initially a .308 neck sizing die was used followed with a pass with a .303 neck expander button but recently I have gone to a Lee Loader. Currently there are two .303 rifles here, both number 4's called scoped .303 and iron sight .303 here for convenience. Initially the iron sight .303 was loaded with 40 grains of older AR2209 was loaded behind old production 174 grain round noses which chronographed 1,930 feet per second from its 25 inch barrel and was quite accurate. The scoped .303 has been loaded with 32 grains of AR2206H behind new production 174 grain RN. This chronographed 2,080 feet per second and was very accurate from the near new 25 inch two groove barrel. I also tried 150 grain Norma projectiles with 34 grains of AR2206H which chronographed 2,050 feet per second and was also quite accurate.
I made the distinction of old AR2209 as my experience the current production is much faster. Early production Hornady 174 grain round nose projectiles also chronographed 1,950 feet per second in the scoped .303 with all other components the same. Hodgdon publishes data for reduced loads using AR2206H (which it calls H4895). Worth reading. At these speeds AR2206H does burn a little dirty but without any unburned grains left in the bore. I will probably increase these loads a little over time but at this level cases can likely be neck sized just about forever with a candle anneal after each third loading. Head separations are unlikely to be a problem.
Some may believe that any load producing around 2,100 feet per second is likely to bounce of a hare let alone a deer. We need to remind ourselves that Bell shot a shit load of elephants between 1902 and 1914 using a .303 with full patch 215 grain projectiles at this velocity.
Regards Grandpamac.

Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings Bumblefoot, I think we must be cousins. I also started to handload for the .303 recently after swearing of it in the late seventies.

Thanks for the helpful reply I appreciate it Maybe brothers from another mother? I had a brainwave last night (yes I am a bit of a dimwit); I suppose the powders used by those with short .308s would be applicable too? Similar-ish calibres and case size.....

I'll try some different projectiles and probably get some of the sample/trial packs of each from Gunworks. As I mentioned it is accurate with the Highland 150s so will try the Speer/Sierra/Hornady options and maybe a 174gr spitzer just for the hell of it.

I love shooting the three-oh and it's actually more accurate than my Marlin XS7 7-08. The Marlin needs the stock opened up to free float the barrel as it's pressuring the barrel in about 3 or 4 places. As I haven't got a dremel and sandpaper makes hardly a dent on the stock I may just flick it on at a reasonable price. explaining what I think needs doing on it as a project for someone. I'm a klutz at DIY and would hate to balls it up!

Greetings again,
While i was writing my post yesterday I could remember an article that listed some comparative velocities for military carbines. I found it today. It was written by Mike Venturino and appeared in Rifle mag in 2013. Mike loaded 40 grains of AR2208 (he called it Varget) ahead of a 174 grain Hornady FMJ. This produced 2,288 feet per second in a No 1 with a 25 inch barrel and 2,200 feet per second in a No 5 Jungle carbine with a 17 inch barrel. He also tried 41 grains of R15 for 2,271 and 2,131 feet per second and Hornady factory for 2,445 and 2,306 feet per second. Mike presented data for 6 cartridges and the velocity loss where it was used was the lowest of all powders not exceeding 140 feet per second even in 10 inch shorter barrels. AR2208 could be worth a good look.
You are quite right the .303 and .308 are almost identical in usable capacity however even .308 start loads are often too hot for the Lee Enfield. I try to stay below 40.000 CUP in the .303 to keep case stretching to a minimum. I would also not take too much notice of those that insist that faster powders need to be used in shorter barrels. Actual testing has indicated that all the powder is burned within an inch or two of the case mouth provided adequate load density and compatible primers are used. The only time I ever saw unburned powder grains in the bore was when I loaded, for no good reason that I can now recall, NL4831 behind cast bullets with a standard primer. It actually shot quite well but I ceased such foolishness forthwith.
Regards Grandpamac.

Thanks for that. No; I would never use 308 data for 303. Was just meaning that the powders would be similar

The Hogdgon BL-C(2) data shows that it seems to give good velocity with low pressure behind a 150gr projectile..... Starter load at 43.0gr for 2,502 @ 34,000 CUP, Max load 48.0gr for 2,756 @ 39,200 CUP

I use Sierra 150 SP’s in mine ( No 1 mk 111* )
Shoot really well.
I use 2208, but std barrel lenght.

As an aside..... Which 150-gr 303 hunting projectiles do you folk have the most success with? Speer, Sierra or Hornady? Or is it much of a muchness? I notice that Hornady also make SSTs for the 303... A lot more expensive than the standard 150gr projectile; and I am a KISS sorta person....

I use the Sierra 150 spire points in my no4. As an exercise I loaded some up with 308 flat base round nose 3030 bullets by changing the expander plug for a 308 one.
They shot acceptably well, certainly good enough to tip a couple of mobs of goats over some boat tailed ones were not so flash however. So now I use the Sierra 150 308s.
If you are lucky enough to have a tight bore 303 you may be able to use 308 projectiles and that gives you hundreds of different options.

The Sierras work fine
You can spend more and get the same result
Don’t overthink it, and post some pics when you bowl something over !

Originally Posted by Frogfeatures

and post some pics when you bowl something over !

Oh; it's bowled them over before! When it sported a Weaver 2.5x.....



Carrying it around when it was an open sighted pig gun; circa 1984-ish (as the threadbare mustache indicates....)

Oh; thank you all for the help....