Welcome guest, is this your first visit? Create Account now to join.
  • Login:

Welcome to the NZ Hunting and Shooting Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.

DPT Alpine


User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 25
Like Tree2Likes

Thread: 200 grain cast bullets in .357 magnum cases

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Nelson
    Posts
    86

    200 grain cast bullets in .357 magnum cases

    I've successfully reloaded cartridges for three different calibres 'by the book', but now I want to use a heavy projectile that I can't find any suitable data for.

    My goal is to have a .357 magnum cartridge which will allow me to shoot 200 grain cast projectiles around 1050 fps. These will be used primarily in a Bergara BA13 single-shot, although if they feed through my Rossi Puma I might use them in that as well.

    I have loaded .357 cartridges with subsonic 125 and 158 grain projectiles, and these have worked well on the few goats and pigs that I've shot with them. However I want something with more power before I tackle deer. I know that what I already have would suffice if I am careful, but I'd rather have a bit more energy.

    I've played around with subsonics in .303 and .308, and at the time I was bothered by the lack of expansion. While appropriate expansion is a good thing, I now think of all the animals we shot with military .303 bullets that just passed through (although some bullets must have tumbled... and if a bone was hit there could be quite a mess). And, like I said, my 158 grain subsonics have worked well on game and they probably didn't deform much. I haven't managed to find one yet.

    Anyway.... that is the background to my project.

    Now I'd appreciate any input regarding my desired goal. The projectile is most likely to be cast in a Lee C358-200-RF mould, but I don't yet have the mould and I am open to suggestions. I already have CCI standard small rifle primers, Trail Boss and AP70N powers. The ADI online reloading data stops at 180 grain projectiles. I know that it would be safe to try an uncompressed load of Trail Boss, but I reckon the maximum possible load will not provide the velocity I seek. I have seen some old data suggesting that 6 grains of Alliant Unique or 8.4 grains of Vihtavuori N105 would probably be suitable - but this is old data and I'd prefer to see recently published stuff. I understand that AP70N is close in performance to Unique, but I can't be certain of how things are nowadays.

    Browsing the internet, it seems that there are plenty of shooters using 200 grain cast bullets in their .357 magnum firearms. Although I fully understand why, it is frustrating that their reloading recipes aren't freely published in many cases. Some guys are using W296 or Hodgdon H110 which is meant to be equivalent to ADI2205. I've never used this powder, but I'm a little scared of it having read so many warnings about the dangers of 'underloading'... the necessity of using magnum primers with it.... and the way a little bit extra can add a whole lot more pressure. It isn't the sort of thing I want to leave a can of for my grandchildren to inherit. But... if I can be convinced that it will give me a safe load for my project, it is a powder I can get hold of.

    I believe it is possible to 'work up' a load using a rifle with a strong action, using common sense in comparing other loads, and working slowly and carefully while all the time looking for signs of excessive pressure. I could do this I guess. I am not an expert.

    Thanks in advance... best wishes from Nelson.

  2. #2
    Member norsk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    832
    I would start with the minimum load for 158grn and work up if I felt like it.

    Your 200 grainers will extend a wee bit further into the case,so you will have less volume to worry about.

    Are the loads you have found revolver or Rifle loads?
    357 can be run pretty hot in a rifle.

    Just record what you do,take it slowly and enjoy yourself.

    I recently worked up a load for a Rifle without any published data for any powder I can get here.You have a starting point and quite a bit more steel round the breech.
    "Sixty percent of the time,it works every time"

  3. #3
    Just like Mimms the First
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    Tai Tokerau
    Posts
    875
    I would always recommend working up a load by ladder test method, over a chrony.
    I take accuracy over velo every day of the week.

    "Underloading" is a myth. At least in all my years nobody, but nobody, has ever experienced it. Sure, mate's cousins's father in law once heard someone on the range say it happened.
    Manufacturers have tried and failed to replicate it.

    With this in mind I say go for it. Magnum primers not necessary but may give you cleaner burn and a couple FPS.

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Nelson
    Posts
    86
    Thanks for the encouraging responses.

    I'm not sure whether the data I found for the 200 grain bullets was intended for pistol or rifle.... but I'm thinking the Vihtavuori figures may have been intended for pistols seeing that their internet site seems to list .357 only under pistol data. The estimated pressure for the relevant Alliant loads is 33,900 psi, and the Vihtavuori chart shows 35,000 psi.

    I too have trouble with the concept of under-loading. Sure, it can be dangerous if a bullet gets stuck in the barrel and the shooter doesn't realise it.... but apart from that I simply don't get it. Mind you, there are a lot of things I don't know much about yet.

    A while back I sent a query to the ADI technical department, asking if I had to use magnum primers with the ADI AR2205. They replied by saying that magnum primers are not necessary for the ignition of their powders... but they did carefully point out that different primers will affect pressure. I'm pretty certain that the standard primers will ignite anything. A couple of days ago I wanted a shell case for doing some volume experiments... but I'd fitted new primers to all my empties. So I loaded a primed case into the 16" Rossi and pulled the trigger. I saw orange flames at the end of the barrel.

    I recently wrote ADI another query relating to the 200 grain projectiles. I felt a bit bad bothering them considering that half their continent is on fire, but reloading is pretty important too. I imagine that their response will be a cautious one.

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Nelson
    Posts
    86
    Heh. Just got a response from ADI. It was a nice letter, but did not have the answer I am craving for. They wrote: "Unfortunately we do not have any test load data for .357 Magnum with 200 grain lead
    projectiles". They explained that I could experiment with Trail Boss. They did not respond at all to my statement that I had figures for Unique powder which appears on the ADI chart as a close equivalent to ADI AP70N. Fair enough, I understand the position they have to take.

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Auckland
    Posts
    142
    Hi Coote,

    I have shot these for years in my 357Mag & 357 Super mag pistols . ADI 2205 is the bully with these.
    I'll post them tonight.

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Nelson
    Posts
    86
    Ihmsakiwi... great !! Thank you. Now I need to get the mould. Reloaders don't have them at present. I see there is an Australian crowd selling one on Ebay.

  8. #8
    Member Kiwi-Hunter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Southland
    Posts
    545

    357 data

    Hi coote
    I've had a look and like you didn't find much, someone with quickload should have data for you.
    My lyman has pistol data on the 195 cast which could give a starting base.
    KH
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    norsk likes this.
    The Voice of Reason, Come let us Reason together...

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Nelson
    Posts
    86
    Thanks Kiwi-Hunter. That information is good food for thought. The 2400 powder gets mentioned a lot, but ADI don't have an exact equivalent... their closest being AR2205, which is very likely the powder I will end up using. I ordered the Lee C358-200-RF mould this afternoon. Hope you are continuing to have fun down in your part of the island. Best wishes....

  10. #10
    Member Kiwi-Hunter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Southland
    Posts
    545
    Yes Coote
    I used the 2400 in 357 but only loading 158g.
    Tentman+ might be kind enough to run the data in quickload and it should give best powders and what to stay away from.
    Ive had tentman run loads for me and in load development its a good tool.
    No doubt someone would of played with 200 cast.
    I have some 158? cast I want to get rid of.
    I am just to used to shooting copper jacket !less mess.
    The last lot of 2400 I got off Richard Wilhelm.
    KH
    The Voice of Reason, Come let us Reason together...

  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Nelson
    Posts
    86
    What type are the cast projectiles you want to get rid of Kiwi-Hunter?

  12. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    Christchurch
    Posts
    270
    @Coote, I think ADI should have elaborated a bit better for you.

    Anecdote: with a mild load of 2205 and CCI 300's in a 16" 44 Mag, I got globs of unburned powder in the barrel and glowing lumps of it shooting downrange. It took a near max load, a firm crimp, and a CCI 350 before the powder really started doing what it was supposed to.

    There's got to be enough sustained heat and pressure in the chamber/barrel to get a powder going properly and sustain the burn, if you want to get the most out of it. So... Will powders ignite with standard primers? Yes, definitely... Is the affect on pressure (i.e. of a magnum primer) that ADI alluded to sometimes necessary to help create the circumstances for certain powders to perform properly in certain applications? Also yes.

  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Nelson
    Posts
    86
    Ah, that is good info thanks PommyMcPomFace. Just the sort of thing I need to know. Theory is important, but anecdotes from someone with experience are really valuable. Whereas a lot of reloaders over the years have been pursuing maximum power, all I want for now is a decent subsonic load for the 200 grain bullet. Eventually I am likely to want to play with some gas checks and maximum loads, so anything related to this cartridge is interesting. Things are pretty busy for me for the next few months, but soon I will be collecting the Government Super and I should have plenty of time for playing with bullets.

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Nelson
    Posts
    86
    If I've posted this image before, please forgive me. This is the biggest animal I've bagged with a .357 magnum, and I was just using 125 grain cast bullets (Lee 358-125-RF) at around 1050 fps. The pig was close and one shot to the head did the trick. However I'm keen to get the 200 grain cast subsonics up and running in case I come across a deer... or maybe another pig like this one where I have to take a shoulder shot.

    berg243 likes this.

  15. #15
    Member mikee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Nelson, New Zealand
    Posts
    7,568
    @Coote
    ADI shows max load of 18gns 2205 with 140gn Hornady FTX projectile. I can tell you from this mornings efforts, the most you will get in the case is 13.5gns assuming you need it to function thru a lever action magazine. No idea what the velocity will be yet
    I may have a spare tin of 2205 if you need some as I am looking for max velocity for the 140s

 

 

Similar Threads

  1. FS: 45 cal Cast Bullets
    By Husky1600 in forum Buy, Sell or Swap
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 17-11-2019, 05:46 PM
  2. FS: 300 aac 235 grain cast projectiles
    By vbull in forum Buy, Sell or Swap
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 14-11-2017, 09:33 PM
  3. 9.3 cast bullets
    By Marty Henry in forum Reloading and Ballistics
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 01-11-2017, 06:04 AM
  4. WTB: cast Bullets
    By mikec in forum Buy, Sell or Swap
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 18-07-2017, 07:00 PM
  5. Cast Bullets
    By gimp in forum Reloading and Ballistics
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 28-05-2013, 12:56 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Welcome to NZ Hunting and Shooting Forums! We see you're new here, or arn't logged in. Create an account, and Login for full access including our FREE BUY and SELL section Register NOW!!