208 ELD-M in 16in 308

I’ve been looking for a new load thats going to have more knock down power than my current 150 SST load. I ran the 208 ELD-M through shooter and at 500yd it has 250ft/lb more energy than my current load even if only launched at 2250fps. I also plan on putting in a LA boy stop and magazine so I can seat close to the lands.

I’ve exhausted all my internet searches and can’t find a couple of things that I’m hoping you all can answer.

The first is bullet stability. Utilising the JBM calculator it’s sitting around 1.53 at 2250 so looking relatively ok. But it had no place to input my barrel length. Will my short barrel effect the stability of the projectile or is the only governing factor velocity?

Secondly haven’t found much first hand experiences of this round below 2000fps. Has anyone here had any experience on our more solid game species around that velocity? I’m planning on using this round primarily for reds and fallow but I bump into Sambar occasionally.

Lastly I’m planning on utilising 2206H first (as it got me 2760fps with the SST). Is this the powder you would personally use? And for anyone that’s tried running the 208ELDM in a short barrel would you be willing to share your load development.

As far as I know stability is more a result of the barrel twist than velocity.

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Originally Posted by Russian 22.

As far as I know stability is more a result of the barrel twist than velocity.

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From my research your dead right the barrel twist an the length of the projectile are the two largest factors. But the velocity, height above sea level and whether it has a ballistic tip all have an effect too.

Should of said it in the original post my barrel is a Tikka 1-11”

I'm no expeett but When launched at the low speed, it wont be far till they drop back below the sound barrier which destabilises things. Would have thought 2208 wpuld be a better powder option

I found the 178 AMAX shot better than the 208 AMAX in my Tikka 308.

Recoil is up there with the 208.

Another projectile to try is the Sierra TMK, they are nice & soft, a handy feature for your velocity.

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Originally Posted by 223nut

I'm no expeett but When launched at the low speed, it wont be far till they drop back below the sound barrier which destabilises things. Would have thought 2208 wpuld be a better powder option

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You’d be suprised I know I sure was, it doesn’t break the sound barrier until 1230yds. It keeps above 1600fps until 600yd which from my understanding is the minimum impact velocity for expansion and about 100yds further than my planned max range for my 308.

You mention 2208 does that go better in a short barrel if you step up the projectile weight? As when I load tested it against 2206H it was just over 110fps slower.

178/208 with Lapua brass and ADI2208 powder

Great combo

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Originally Posted by Kiwi Greg

I found the 178 AMAX shot better than the 208 AMAX in my Tikka 308.

Recoil is up there with the 208.

Another projectile to try is the Sierra TMK, they are nice & soft, a handy feature for your velocity.

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Hey Greg what was the deciding factor that made you prefer the 178s? And what velocity were you able to get from each load?

That’s a valid point on the recoil which I hadn’t considered. My wife shoots the odd fallow from time to time with this rifle and she doesn’t currently mind the recoil but if it’s a significant step up it might put her off.

Haven’t even thought about the SMK, I might need to do a bit of a read up on em.

1600fps may be the minimum for some expansion but 1800fps is in my opinion a more realistic minimum to actually deliver some shock to the animal and ensure some expansion and a quick kill.

Having shot some fairly long range animals with 308 and 168amax launched at 2750fps and not all of them good shots Id say you are asking quite a lot from a 16inch barrel.

Windage is your biggest enemy with long range and 308 and the ability to accurately place that shot as it takes piss all to push you 6 or 10 inches off at 600y.

If you practice heaps and have the skills tho all power to you.

2206h is better suited to lighter weight class bullets in 308, 2208 or maybe cfe223 should go better in the heavier class bullets.

Matt. Just some info u may or may not know already : the stability for a given bullet is governed by the velocity vs the twist, which generates the spin rate. The spin rate ( RPM ) equation is "Muzzle velocity x 720" divided by twist rate.

Stability actually increases over distance ie, if the bullet is stable on the target at 100 yards it will actually be more stable the further out it goes because the velocity value degrades at a far greater rate than the bullet spin rate. The "transonic zone" is another story.

Many people think that a faster powder will give you a faster velocity for a short barrel. Not always.

"Target" bullets like say the SMK's and Bergers are normally harder because they have thicker jackets, but lord knows they do kill animals plenty well enough, perhaps especially since there's a million variables re where u hit the animal and what u hit and .........

Have a look at the link on this post there is a mention to heavy bullets towards the bottom article, I reckon you are on the right track

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Originally Posted by veitnamcam

1600fps may be the minimum for some expansion but 1800fps is in my opinion a more realistic minimum to actually deliver some shock to the animal and ensure some expansion and a quick kill.

Having shot some fairly long range animals with 308 and 168amax launched at 2750fps and not all of them good shots Id say you are asking quite a lot from a 16inch barrel.

Windage is your biggest enemy with long range and 308 and the ability to accurately place that shot as it takes piss all to push you 6 or 10 inches off at 600y.

If you practice heaps and have the skills tho all power to you.

2206h is better suited to lighter weight class bullets in 308, 2208 or maybe cfe223 should go better in the heavier class bullets.

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Cheers for the info especially about the powder. Will grab some 2208 and do a ladder test with both. An agree I’ll be pushing my short barrel to acieve what I’m hoping for but if it’s stable and I get the velocity I’m hoping it will help bridge the gap on longer barrels. If not

Definitely agree with you on the wind but if this load works out I’d reduce my wind hold by a third.
@LRP some good info there. To be honest I wasn’t aware of the formula I just cheated and used the JBM calculator ��

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Originally Posted by Matt-P.Nth

Hey Greg what was the deciding factor that made you prefer the 178s? And what velocity were you able to get from each load?

That’s a valid point on the recoil which I hadn’t considered. My wife shoots the odd fallow from time to time with this rifle and she doesn’t currently mind the recoil but if it’s a significant step up it might put her off.

Haven’t even thought about the SMK, I might need to do a bit of a read up on em.

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The 178s were sub 1/2 moa & the 208s were 1/2-3/4 moa with more recoil.

I will see if I get a chance to dig the data out tomorrow for you.

I would use 165s or 168elds with cfe223 in a 16inch 308. I'm using 165speer btsp in an 18inch and find it a happy medium.
As others have said, there is a lot happens after 350m or so in alpine conditions and there are cartridges that are better ballistic choices for most of us.

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Originally Posted by stevodog

I would use 165s or 168elds with cfe223 in a 16inch 308. I'm using 165speer btsp in an 18inch and find it a happy medium.
As others have said, there is a lot happens after 350m or so in alpine conditions and there are cartridges that are better ballistic choices for most of us.

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Did consider the 168 ELD but thought the 208 would provide better terminal performance with how soft the match variants are.

Got a custom 270 for the longer shots so am used to taking deer past 600 with that set up. With my 308 I’m really after a round that will anchor reds and sika out to 500 at a push (most of my current shots are 100-300) and still be able to have enough penetration on sambar to put them down at 100

Oh sweet...into it.

Not sure it'll work. Mfg recommends 1:10. I use them in a 1:11 WSM and they're 99% stable at 2750 but sometimes the holes on paper aren't perfectly round.

@Matt-P.Nth read this https://bangsteel.wordpress.com/2013...08-winchester/

Same as a 140 in the creedmoor etc which kills them at 500 easy.

Should shoot sweet mate.

it works best in a 10 twist, i used to shoot them at 2450fps from my 22" 10 twist 308.
Its an awesome killer, just make sure you know the trajectory well as it drops like a brick

I use the 168 eldm now at 2750fps, kills very well out to 600 at least.

@PommyMcPomFace your experience is my biggest concern with developing a load for the 208. The calculations reckon it’s good (well on the borderline of good and potentially unstable) but reality could and probably is going to be a lot harsher than I’m hoping for. Worst case if the first ladder starts going sideways I’m going pull the remainder rather than seeing if they “settle” at a higher velocity. Thinking I might also leave the suppressor off for the first ladder.
@NewbieZAR good to hear they killed well even at the lower muzzle velocity.

Cheers for all of the responses team. Definitely given me a lot to think about. Won’t be being overconfident and buying that 100 box of 208’s now haha. Will buy some samples from gunworks (or “borrow” off mates) of the 168,178 and 208 ELDM’s and report back on how development ends up going.

If you do buy a box if 208s and they dont shoot I'll happily buy the remainder off you

Matt, ive got some 195 TMK's if you want to try them aswell

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Originally Posted by wsm junkie

Matt, ive got some 195 TMK's if you want to try them aswell

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How effective do you find them on deer? A very good hunter said that they are awesome. I was hoping that they'd be a good option for a cheap, effective long range projectile.

@Russian 22. I find they are very similar to the old Amax. They kill very well, good terminal performance

What are you shooting? Bison? :P

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Originally Posted by wsm junkie

Matt, ive got some 195 TMK's if you want to try them aswell

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