222 from 223

Bit of a waste of time as 222 brass is easy obtainable but I never researched it
But thought id have a play as I have plenty of 223 brass with no rifle
Flying completely by the seat of my pants as I didn’t even know it could be done

I started by anealing the 223 brass i then trimmed the 223 brass to 1.690”
222 trim length in my manual
That’s alot of triming trust me from a 223 case

I then lubed them well and run them through my 222 fls die

Yep perfect 222 brass that chamber fine in my 222

Next step will be to fireform a couple with no projectile just use a small charge of pistol powder and fill the case with cream of weat and see how they go

Ok, I'm intrigued. what're you gonna shoot with cream of wheat, are you hunting loaves of bread or something?

Lol just saves wasting projeiles for fireforming
Just put them in and pull the trigger it still sounds like a gun going off so not in the center of town but there is no projectile so pretty safe
As long as nobody is worried about the noise
Just makes sure the Case is the right size for the chamber pressures move the bass to fill the gaps

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Originally Posted by rambo-6mmrem

Lol just saves wasting projeiles for fireforming
Just put them in and pull the trigger it still sounds like a gun going off so not in the center of town but there is no projectile so pretty safe
As long as nobody is worried about the noise
Just makes sure the Case is the right size for the chamber pressures move the bass to fill the gaps

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It’s not so much to save using a projectile for fire forming, it’s more that cream of wheat, walnut etc physically forces the brass out to chamber dimensions.

Great stuff, had wondered about doing the same thing, and if the brass would handle it. Do you have to hold the rifle upright when firing ? (to avoid flash-detonation across the powder, rather than a "burn"), or does it not matter due to lack of pressure, with the absence of a projectile ? You might start a "run" on .222's, ...free brass, and $25-$29 for 100 projo's on TM --with free shipping ! Doesnt get much cheaper than that.

What is the neck diameter of the loaded 222 round?

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Originally Posted by rewa

Great stuff, had wondered about doing the same thing, and if the brass would handle it. Do you have to hold the rifle upright when firing ? (to avoid flash-detonation across the powder, rather than a "burn"), or does it not matter due to lack of pressure, with the absence of a projectile ? You might start a "run" on .222's, ...free brass, and $25-$29 for 100 projo's on TM --with free shipping ! Doesnt get much cheaper than that.

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Its a small change of powder then the case is Topped up with cream of weat then a small wad of cotton to hold it all in
So no you can even just point it at the ground
Ive never actually done it before but just been doing some reading most guys ive seen do it just put the rifle on a bipod and sit beside it feeding cases and pulling the trigger

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Originally Posted by rupert

What is the neck diameter of the loaded 222 round?

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Will messure a couple today for you

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Originally Posted by rambo-6mmrem

Bit of a waste of time as 222 brass is easy obtainable but I never researched it
But thought id have a play as I have plenty of 223 brass with no rifle
Flying completely by the seat of my pants as I didn’t even know it could be done

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Belmont have been doing it for around 40 years.

@rupert 0.249” for a reformed hornady 223 case
Pmc factory 222 brass 0.429 also
Both messured 0.241 unloaded also

Rambo: thanks for that. I thought about using 223 brass to make thicker necked 222 for an over-generous factory 222 chamber (must be about 0.256" in the neck diameter). But as the difference between your PMC factory load neck and a reformed 223 case is zero, I don't think I'll bother. Incidentally, by my measurements of the reloads I have: Lapua 222 loaded rounds are the largest diameter at about 0.250" and PMC the smallest diameter at about 0.246" (I must have a completely different lot of PMC brass from yours). Also, I found PMC brass to have the most consistent neck thickness out of Lapua, Sako, Norma, and the Nth American brands (Win, Rem, Fed, Imp).

@rupert not sure if 5.56x45 nato brass is thicker
Might be worth a look?

Thanks for that idea. I'll check it out.

I am unable to follow why 222 cases made from 223 cases need to be fire formed.

Depending whose drawings you take the dimensions from, both cases are within a couple of thou of an inch of being the same diameter at the neck/shoulder junction. Again depending on whose drawings are referred to, this junction is 1.260in ahead of the bolt face for the 222. It is 1.433 ahead of the bolt face for the 223, so at 1.26in ahead of the bolt face the body diameter is about 0.013 in larger than the 222 body diameter.

The usual reason for fire forming is to either reduce the body taper of a case or to move the shoulder forward – or both. When a 223 cases is re-sized to 222, the rate of body taper is increased (i.e. the diameter at the neck/shoulder junction is reduced) and the position and angle of the new shoulder is determined by the setting of the full length sizing die.

I have made 222 cases from 223 cases myself. I used a 222 form and trim die to push the 223 shoulder back to ALMOST the correct 222 length, doing it in two stages, which worked better than trying to do it in one. Then I ran the cases through my regular 222 full length sizing die, which was set up to match my rifle chamber. As expected, the finished cases measured up exactly the same as fired ‘native’ 222 cases run through the same F L die. No need for any fire forming.
I checked the neck thickness and found that with the Federal brass I was using, the neck diameter of loaded cartridges was still an easy fit in the chamber neck, so there was no need for neck turning or reaming. However, it is possible that it could be needed with other brands of 223 brass.

I have ended up with a few marks from sizeing probably just my die
Fire forming would just get rid of any little in perfections
In the case

G'day fellas, just a quick relate to what I found years ago forming 222 from 223 cases. I was given 1000 once fired WW 223 cases to form down to 222 for use in my Mini 14 Ranch Rifle, this was back in the mid 80's, I ran 300 thru my full length sizing die, then trimmed them, and loaded up a couple with no powder just to see if they fed right, the buggers wouldnt chamber as the lower half of the neck which formed from the 223 shoulder was too thick and squeezed between the chamber wall and the projectile. I didnt have neck turning gear then, nor a reamer set up, so I binned the lot and went back to standard 222 brass. A lot of work to throw away, but life is too short to stuff around with so much effort.
These days I do a lot of case forming as I shoot mostly wildcat cartridges, but I have a heap of forming gear and know a hell of a lot more than in those days. :thumbsup:

Originally mine didn’t chamber ether
But I found that it was because I hadn’t bumped the shoulder enough
I took the die from its normal touching the shell holder setting to 1/2 turn in so there’s a cam over on the press
Then I got a nice chambering round

I started buy trimming the 223 brass 1st then sizeing but ive actually found I had better results by removing the decaping arrangement from the die and running full length 223 brass through before trimming to length

I think that the whole cam over caper just doesn't add up. I can't see how trying to compress a hardened steel die, in a steel press with a hardened steel shell holder can do much other than put unwanted stresses on parts that don't need them. Once your brass is as far into the die as it can be pushed by the ram, it cant go any further in without compressing the die body or shell holder.

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Originally Posted by Kamel

I think that the whole cam over caper just doesn't add up. I can't see how trying to compress a hardened steel die, in a steel press with a hardened steel shell holder can do much other than put unwanted stresses on parts that don't need them. Once your brass is as far into the die as it can be pushed by the ram, it cant go any further in without compressing the die body or shell holder.

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Agreed. Never understood this theory myself

Ok I tried it once too - had the same problem as Kamel above - could size the brass alright, with a lot of trimming, but the necks were too thick. Rectifying that could be done I suppose, but it seemed easier to go to a shop and buy some .222 cases so I gave that up as a hobby.

Cam over does make a difference to how far the shoulder is bumped not sure how but it does
By a quite a few thousandths of an inch at times

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Originally Posted by rambo-6mmrem

Cam over does make a difference to how far the shoulder is bumped not sure how but it does
By a quite a few thousandths of an inch at times

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Doesn't really make sense how... unless your press has a measurable amount of flex

You need to grind a little off the bottom off your die if you are not getting cam over at the correct sizing depth (e.g. you are bottoming out on the die).

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Originally Posted by rambo-6mmrem

I have ended up with a few marks from sizeing probably just my die
Fire forming would just get rid of any little in perfections
In the case

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Maybe these marks are oil dents?

When I first tried resizing 223 cases, I had problems with these even when I was ultra careful with applying the lube. In fact initially, when I tried to do the resizing in just two steps, using the full length dies with the stem removed, I got sometimes got worse than dents. Occasionally the whole case would collapse in the shoulder area, and other times a sort of 'inward crease' would form on the new neck, making it useless. The three step procedure I mentioned earlier, using a form and trim died for the first two passes, seemed to work quite well, with minimal losses. With the brass I was starting with (Federal) and the neck diameter of my chamber, I didn't need to neck turn the reformed case.

I made 100 cases, then, as the devil would have it, I picked up a few hundred brand new 222 cases off Trademe, at a very reasonable price. So I needn't have bothered with reforming 223 in the first place. Never mind - it was an interesting exercise.

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Originally Posted by chalkeye

You need to grind a little off the bottom off your die if you are not getting cam over at the correct sizing depth (e.g. you are bottoming out on the die).

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A less destructive way is to insert a feeler gauge of the required thickness under the case in the Shellholder- I.e. poke it in under the base. Works well and you don’t need to try and mess with hardened dies. Likewise if you want to back the die off, a feeler gauge between the base of the die and Shellholder to set your distance, then you can always reset it without buggering around.

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Originally Posted by chalkeye

You need to grind a little off the bottom off your die if you are not getting cam over at the correct sizing depth (e.g. you are bottoming out on the die).

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Do not butcher your dies.
Shellholders of different depths used to be available to allow the case to go a further or a lesser depth into the die.
If you can't source a set, or consider them too dear, then get a spare shellholder and stone the top off it until you get the sizing result you want.

Messure the shoulder bump of a fls case(normal setting) and again with cam over
You’ll be Surprised how much extra bump you can get by having cam over
When I got my 6mmrem built the 1st rounds I loaded for it didn’t fit (normal die setting)
I rang the gunsmith and asked he told me I needed to have the press cam over to bump the shoulder enough for the tight chamber (built like that on perpose)
Cam over can knock the shoulder back alot more than normal settings the most I’ve seen is 0.012” more than normal die setting
Normally you can get an extra 0.004-0.006 depending on the dies