243 load advice 1:10 twist winchester mod 70

hey guys, I have acquired a Winchester mod 70 lightweight I believe it is 1:10 twist rate 22" or maybe 24" barrel
I was thinking about either:

90g Sierra TGK games changers
or
90g Nosler spitzer ballistic tips

just wondering if anyone can recommend what powder to try

ADI
AR2208
or
AR2209

I haven't got access to my mates load manual here at work just trying to do a bit of homework
looking to use on fallow, goats, pigs and possibly reds out to 200 yards
failing that has anyone got any other suggestions for projectiles

AR2209 will be ideal for that length barrel and bullet weight.

Serria 85gr Hpbt have a good reputation and cheap as.

thanks @Dama dama :thumbsup:

I was thinking about ELDX or ELDM but neither have an offering under 100g
was thinking they may not stabilize in the 1:10 twist
anyone else got any thoughts on this ????

@dannyb

It is a 1:10” twist.

The .243 Winchester and me go back many years to the 80s and for most of that time I have shot the Sierra ProHunter 100gr. Powders have come and gone but always in the same ballpark burn rate rise, and that is AR2209 or H4350 as it is known overseas. A fullish case and 2800-2850fps is perfect, not too fast as the ProHunter likes to shed weight through fragmentation and allow the base to push through. Too fast and it will make a mess. It is still highly effective at much slower impact speeds. I have a heap of info and photos on that.

As for effective range it is a lot further than you’d think and in CZ, Tikka and now Howa form it has been an absolute killing machine.

I’ve shot more deer with this bullet than all the others put together. My missus uses the same config and she is farking deadly with it.

To me the .243 Win is a precision job, its a helluva accurate round when set up right and you can put them where you like. I mostly neck and front chest shoot red deer, and into the base of the skull if its bedded down. Bullet placement is critically important and shots behind the shoulder can be slow to kill. Those that diss the .243 either through what they’ve read or maybe seen have usually experienced poor shot placement.

I use 75gr V-Max for varmints but don’t do as much with the .243 as I used to. I’ve also loaded the 85gr HPBT GameKing, the 90gr Nosler BT, the Speer HotCor and others. But I always go back to the ProHunter. I was considering trying the GameChanger but decided against it as experienced shooters who’ve tried them are saying they are too hard.

When the 6mm ELD-X comes out soon I’ll defo try that.

So boasting and big mouthing aside, I love my .243s and will never ever be without one.

Also the stabilizing thing is mostly bollox. Flat base 100gr 6mm bullets will stabilise in 1:10” 99.9% of the time no problem at all. If you use the Berger stability calculator it doesn’t have a function to take into account the length of the pastic tip, because Bergers don’t use them. And it will report “marginal” stability. Use the JBM calculator and the correct value for the plastic tip, and you will see values well above the all important 1.3. Load them right and shoot them and this will be proven to you.

I have all the measurements for the new 6mm Hornady bullets cos I asked Hornady for them.

@Flyblown
what about these would they be worth a "shot"
https://www.gunworks.co.nz/shop/item...dy-eld-x-24550

I like the 85-87gr bullets. Sierra gameking 85gr HPBT is well regarded, hornady do/did a 87gr HPBT combination varmint light deer bullet that my dad used for years and I have put down a few with the Berger hunting 87gr HPBT. I have mostly used W760/H414 for my reloads. Dad used mostly 4350.
Nb, Hornady have just released a 90gr ELD-X. I would be concerned that this may be a bit heavy in the jacket once you get past bush shooting ranges.
Zq

87g V Max
40g 2209 gives 2800fps in my factory barrel Remington 700.

Does the job for varmints.
Thumbnail group size at 100m from a cheap bipod and rear baghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...347e100baf.jpg

Sent from my SM-A510Y using Tapatalk

federal blue box 100grn is the factory load a couple of chaps on here use with great success..... I surely hope the one you bought is the one that was for sale on here???

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dannyb

@Flyblown
what about these would they be worth a "shot"
https://www.gunworks.co.nz/shop/item...dy-eld-x-24550

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Short answer No . You will be able to shoot accurately up to 100 gn flat base not boat tail . If you are not going to shoot long distance then i would go for something with a flatter point like a speer grand slam , the trick is not to push them hard , at about 2800 .
For anything else go for a good BC , one of the problems I have had with a 243 is bruising of the meat , the faster and more explosive the projectile the more you throw because of bruising .

I tried the 103gr eld-x in my 24 inch 1:10 Brno, it was no good. I’m keen to try the 90gr version but they aren’t in NZ yet.
My rifle likes the 100gr pro hunter and the 85hpbt

Years ago Graeme Omlo wrote an article about the .243 for Rod and Rifle. He tried a number of projectiles, but he reckoned none worked better than the Hornady 87gr spire point.

I used 95gr sst's and then Targex 95gr with 2209. I didn't shoot the Targex a lot but they were hard to beat in the ballistic calculator

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stug

Years ago Graeme Omlo wrote an article about the .243 for Rod and Rifle. He tried a number of projectiles, but he reckoned none worked better than the Hornady 87gr spire point.

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Yep, great article. 85-90gr are the optimum weight for a 243 out to 300.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stug

Years ago Graeme Omlo wrote an article about the .243 for Rod and Rifle. He tried a number of projectiles, but he reckoned none worked better than the Hornady 87gr spire point.

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I think some reloads done my a dude here in CHCH 20 years ago may've been loaded with these.
Was trying out other rifles and didn't really see any deer with them either so never found out how they went. Have a handful left but mate looking after my rifle when I was in OZ didn't realise that's what it was sighted in for and used a full packet of feds I had with it too. Got a deer about 200yrds with that ammo.
Now I have a handful of reloads that I would use all up sighting it back in so.......
Are they still the benchmark or have they been overtaken so to speak? They used to work so why wouldn't they now?
As a thought I know 100grs is getting up there considering the twist so 105s literally a bit hit and miss?
Example:

https://geco-munition.de/en/ammuniti...t/243-win.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cigar

I tried the 103gr eld-x in my 24 inch 1:10 Brno, it was no good. I’m keen to try the 90gr version but they aren’t in NZ yet.
My rifle likes the 100gr pro hunter and the 85hpbt

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I use 2208 in three other calibres but went with 2209 for the 243 because everyone reckoned it was better, and it gives better case fill.
I'm still working up my loads, but so far no pressure signs in my rifle at 39 grains of AR2209 with 85-87gr projectiles and 38 grains with 100gr Prohunters.

My best groups so far have been with the Sierra 100gr so definitely no stabilisation issues. Different story with the 103 eld-x, most shots missed the paper, but it is about 25% longer than the Sierra even though it's only 3% heavier.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dannyb

@Flyblown
what about these would they be worth a "shot"
https://www.gunworks.co.nz/shop/item...dy-eld-x-24550

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Sorry @Danny as per the comments by other fellas, I meant the 90gr ELD-X which hasn’t arrived here yet

So to answer your question, No.

The two 6mm ELD-X are good bullets to use the JBM stability calculator for. Test the theory.

103gr ELD-X: BULLET OAL 1.258”, tip length 0.14”

90gr ELD-X: Bullet OAL 1.104”, tip length 0.14”

The 103gr bullet was designed for the 6mm Creedmoor 1:8” twist.

There are a couple of fast twist .243 rifles that will stabilise them, the Remington .243s with its 9.125” twist is right on the limit at 2850fps.

The 90gr ELD-X is specially designed for 1:10” twist barrels.

After lots of American shooters complained about there not being a ELD-X for the 1:10” twist .243s, and the fact that Sierra put one on them with the 90gr GameChanger, Hornady designed the 90gr. They are a few months behind the 90gr GameChanger and we aren’t seeing them here yet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ZQLewis

Nb, Hornady have just released a 90gr ELD-X. I would be concerned that this may be a bit heavy in the jacket once you get past bush shooting ranges.

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I asked a friendly Hornady tech about this. He said that the jacket thickness is proportional to the calibre, i.e. the bigger the calibre, the heavier the jacket. So the 178gr .308 is quite tough, the 6.5mm slightly less so. That has certainly been my experience of those two. So I am expecting the 90gr ELD-X to be fit for purpose, which was described as “whitetail” by the tech. If it performs like the others, it will shed one third to half its weight in little bits in a cloud of damage, and the remainder below the little lock ring will exit.

Whitetail bucks are highly variable in weight, but I normally equate them with a good fallow buck or red spiker or yearling meat hind.

Only one way to find out though.

I use Hornady 87gr HPBT’s and 2208
I could squeeze a little more speed out if I used 2206H, but everything I’ve shot, dropped.
20 inch barrel.

I grew up shooting a 243 with 100gr federal power shok soft points. Performed flawlessly and always dropped deer consistently upto big stags. Also shot a few with 80gr soft points no worries. A mate has just loaded some rounds with the 100gr Hornady soft points and his son shot a nice sized stag a few days ago at about 150. Great penetration and expansion for one dead deer. Simple old soft points work a treat if you’re not fussy.

Have had and used 243 for many years ,a great all rounder. We have always liked the 80 -85 gr bullet especially the 85 gr Partition it kills well. Lately I have been using the 95 gr SST and it shoots ok in my Rem, My grandson used this combo to shoot his first deer here in NZ, he was with my son and the young stag strolled out at 236 yards, one shot behind the shoulder and my son said that stag just tipped over with feet in the air and never moved again.
We always found the lighter bullets performed better than the 100gr bullets but then the 100's never let you down they just didn't put animals down as quick. I can't wait to get some 90 gr ELD X bullets I think they will be great, especially if they perform like the other ELD X bullets we are using at the moment.
My son in Canada has a Tikka 243 and loads the 90 gr Accubond and finds they are working well, my oldest grandson shot a nice Whitetail Buck last season at over 200 yards with a not so well placed shot but the buck only went 80 odd yards and wasn't going any further but required a finisher.
The 243 sure is a great caliber with just about any bullet weight so long as you match the bullet to the game.

I have used 80 through to 105 g but have found the Serra 85 gameking to be about perfect this has been established since the early 70s absolutly my go to cal.

Been using .243 a lot the last while, knocked over a number of deer and Tahr with the 95gn SST at 3000fps, out to 300yds, result each time no dramas. Have a good load with the 95TMK to test just coz, at 2950fps the ballistics look really good, hoping the terminal result is good too.

Have killed game in the last year with the Sierra 100GK, Sierra 85GK and the SST, like the SST the most, destructive and punches through. Not my first choice on a winter bull, but for every thing else it is just great!

flyblown, did your contact at the big H give you any indication of range or recommended impact velocities for the 6mm ELD-X?
Zq
ps, re powder for the mid range 6mm bullets H414/760 has worked well for me.
for heavy's 103-108gr I used to use W780 and this year have changed over to RL26 as W780 has been discontinued.
have not put enough rounds down range to comment yet.

No discussion of range or impact velocities, sorry.

80 or 85 gr Barnes with 2206H or 2209.

The Targex 95gr are "next level" ballistically in 10 twist 243s

Right so finally got to spend some range time.
Running Sierra prohunter 100g over 2209 ADI powder.
Unfortunately I didn't have access to a COAL gauge so I worked out COAL by feel.
As luck would have it I was close but had seated them to be just touching the lands according to my mate who measured after I had already loaded the ladder.
Results were as expected and I will now do another ladder at 40.1, 40.2 and 40.3 grains and seat them 20 thou off the lands now that I know.
On a side note I need to buy a set of comparetors too.
Also in my haste I forgot the bloody chrono so I'll need that next ladder.
No pressure signs at all.

@Flyblown

Attachment 103491
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just wanted to add. bull tahr 265mtr Berger 87gr vld hunting, shoot was little high. I moved and flicked it 6" high and right so the
bullet went just below the spine with the base coming to rest under the skin. Bullet blow up meet that it chewed up 3 vertebrae and the tops of both lungs. Wanted to go with something heavier but was not happy with accuracy. ran out of time.
End result bullet did it's thing, compensated for my poor placement and the tahr dropped on the spot.

Yup the 40.2gr outcome looks bang on for a reliable hunting load. A little bit of tuning around that powder weight and you'll be good to go. My load of 40.0gr with the same bullet gives 2820 fps from a 20" barrel as you know, and reliable sub MOA field accuracy. This allows me to confidently take upper neck shots from prone if required - taking out the C1 and C2 vertebrae (atlas and axis).

All three of these were taken with that shot placement with the 100gr ProHunter, from memory the fallow @100m, the hind @175m, the stag @220m. I use that shot when I cannot afford the animal running at all with a chest shot, due to terrain. If you zoom in on the fallow and stag photos you can see the blood running from the wounds, the ProHunter obliterates the bone but doesn't make a big mess.

Attachment 103522

Attachment 103523

Attachment 103525

This will do nicely, 40.1grains of 2209 seated just on the lands, every time I tried seating it off the lands the grouping opened up, its not jammed in tight just touching.
Speed was 2840fps
I could probably fluff with it and get it better but for a hunting rifle that won't be shot much past 250yds it's plenty good. If my 270 project comes up good it'll probably do more walking.
Attachment 104116

Spot on @dannyb. Just goes to show that all rifles are different... perfect velocity for that bullet.

They are pricey, but I got the (90?)gr Nosler Partitions shooting one hole in my mates BSA with 2209

My mate had a factory r700sps for a while im pretty sure they are 1-10 as most factory 243 rifles are
That shot and stabilised and was very accurate with the 105gn amax
It’s worth a go what’s the worst that could happen just don’t shoot them through a can to start incase they do go sideways

A number of us are running similar rifles, but have shortened to 18" although I have another still at factory 22"
We run Sierra 85g HPBT with 2209 at 44.4g getting 3050fps and have been fantastic, I keep a supply with Sierra 100g SBT's, but I recently picked up some 95g Targex and am waiting for my Labradar so I can test them out, but from what I've heard a good little pill.