Thread: 358 Win load help and sggestions

Hi Southernman,
You would have to be pleased with those groups.
I need to get out and get some more range time.
How did you go about getting 50 gr of Varget (or in my case ADI 2208) in a case.
I'm using resized win 308 brass and on the first load even 48 gr is compressed with the 225gr Gamekings. Possibly next time around they may have a bit more space but as I can rechamber a used and unsized case in my lever action I don't expect I will gain much.
Z

without checking manual......maybe the likes of winchester 748 MIGHT be better option as 50 grns will fit in case without issue (do it with .308) the fine ball powder much easier to get into case than big chunky ADI stuff.....really notice it in the poohseventy the difference between win 760 and AR 2213 is unreal LOL.

I use W760 for 87gr and W780 Supreme for my 105 gr projectiles in 243 and it's easy to work with.
My load research for the 358 came back with a max of 49 gr Varget with 225 gr at 2.77" COL and a max of 51gr compressed with 200 gr or lighter projectiles.

Question should be how much compression is acceptable. Even at 48 gr under the 225 gr Game king I am compressing it up to 2 mm. If I drop the powder in slowly and with a little more height I get less compression.

Z

I drop powder from a harrels powder thrower, its a compressed load, and I am seated to Oal of 71.2mm, Hornardy cases.
No problem to compress 50g varget, it has lots of air gaps, In the Hornardy cases, I am about 2mm from the top of the neck, before seating.
50gr Varget with 225 Serria gives me 2450fps, (24" barrel)
49 gr = 2416
48 gr+ 2380,
You will see load data for compressed loads, to about 110%,
Ball powder is finer, but a bit more temp sensitive, and we get -40 in winter and 38 c in summer.
longer drop tube, will allow the powder kernals to pack better,
My rifle is a modern ruger bolt action, I be a bit more weary of hot loading a modern lever,
Your likely at 2300 plus, with a 20" BLR, sight in 2" high and you be dead hold to 250 ish,

Thanks, that's exactly the information i was looking for.
Rifle is a rebarreled 1975 Sav 99. (was a 308)
I don't feel any need to push my lever guns so normally I run them about 1 gr under book recommended max. I do like to work up to 1 shot at book recommended max just so i know i have some head room over my working load.
I was hoping to get to 2400 with the 225gr bullet but no animal in NZ is going to quibble over 50 or 100 fps. won't be out with the chronograph for a few weeks yet.
Z

Well finally made it out with with the chronograph and also was able to test a few rounds out on goats getting some Dog food.
I have one of those basic Alpha Chrony units. I was shooting with it aprox 2 mt from the muzzle with a silencer in place so hopefully I'm not getting errors

158 gr XTP with 12 gr tail boss was at aprox 1440 fps
158 gr XTP with 49 gr 2208 (varget) was at aprox 2550 fps
225 gr HPBT with 48 gr 2208 (varget) was at aprox 2450 fps

Starting to think my chrony is reading a little high however the reading with 49 gr of 2208 under the 158 gr XTP is only 30-40 fps higher than predicted which given that I have added a silencer that may account or some of it.
Zq

As to the goats.
At pistol velocities 1400 fps the 158gr xtp passed through the goats leaving 1" sized exit wounds and significant damage. Goats were small - medium Nannies at 5-40 mtrs.
At the 2550 fps on a medium Nannie at 40 mtr the base exited but under the off side shoulder was a wound 150mm long by 75mm high. Bullet went in just forward of the foreleg and the exit wound went from the throat to back under the shoulder blade.
Zq

sounds like you have got it sorted and that trailboss load is a winner for sub hundred yard stuff...

Trailboss sure will be my go to for goats. the 158gr Xtp at 1400 fps was far less destructive than at 2550 fps or what my 243 loaded with berger's does to the off side of a goat.
it still makes a large free draining hole but without so much meat damage.
Zq

Im the formerly mentioned mate in Sweden, decided to weigh in with some loads for you to try. I use Sierra GK 225gr and Nosler JHP 158gr .357. Both loaded with 45gr Norma 201, the noslers hit about two inches high at 100m. Suppose im a bit late to enter the thread but ill do the best I can to answer any questions you may have. Below are a couple of HOGS and a group with the noslers at 100m. I use my shorty rifle in the bush so dont bother shooting much further, just zero gamekings 1inch low and 357s 1inch high and then mix and match according to what needs shooting.

quick guys hide the pies!!!!!!!! LOL

You tell wifey to hide the pie up Mt Studholme where I wont go looking for them.

Hi Sidelock, thats a nice looking unit you have and some good looking food on the ground.
Did you get them with the Gamekings or the JHP?
Any idea what sort of velocity you are getting
I opted for the 358cal GK's after running into a mob of pig with my 243 last year. I put 3 down but the large boar took a bit of anchoring.

I have not shot anything large with the gamekings yet. Hope to get a spring hunt in got a large Red deer so will try it them them.
As noted the 357cal 158 gr at 2550 would not be much good on a large animal in close but once the velocity drops they work well.
Zane

Originally Posted by ZQLewis

Hi Sidelock, thats a nice looking unit you have and some good looking food on the ground.
Did you get them with the Gamekings or the JHP?
Any idea what sort of velocity you are getting
I opted for the 358cal GK's after running into a mob of pig with my 243 last year. I put 3 down but the large boar took a bit of anchoring.

I have not shot anything large with the gamekings yet. Hope to get a spring hunt in got a large Red deer so will try it them them.
As noted the 357cal 158 gr at 2550 would not be much good on a large animal in close but once the velocity drops they work well.
Zane

I use gamekings for everything with hooves.

357 jhp is an explosive pill in rifle loads, i only use them on fox, badger, cat etc or headshots. Would definately load them for roos and goats if I still lived in NZ. Loaded subsonic with trailboss they mushroom perfectly, highly recommended bullet for such loads.

Dont know how suitable 243w is for big and tough animals, over here 6,5x55 with 156-160gr pills is legal minimum. You can go as low as 140gr but that requires handloading and a fair bit of ”optimism” to reach minimum energy requirements for shooting big game.

My shorty is not keen on building velocity, I get about 2250fps with gamekings and 2400 with noslers, though I know others who use the same loads and they all get 100-200fps more. Not relevant at bush range, I have taken pigs, moose and various deer aswell as small game and know of moose taken past 300m with 225gr gamekings so Im confident that my velocity will be adequate for what I do.

What you can expect to see when a gameking is placed in the boiler room (if the animal doesnt drop) is that whatever you shot KNOWS it was hit. No running 100+ yards as if nothing happened, instead the animal will slowly stagger 20 yards or so and then kneel. Very low meat damage, usually looks like you poked a broom handle through the ribs.

Thanks Sidelock. I'm looking forward to trying the GK's on some Reds alter this year.
Whats your Barrel length?
I consider the 243 as being suitable for most NZ game excluding large boar and cattle. You do need to pick and choose your projectiles however and match them to the game and range.
All good until you get caught out with a soft projectile at short range or a hard one at long range. I can hold 1000 ftlb of energy out to 500 meters with the Bergers or the ELD bullets.
re the 357 cal projectiles, thats my experience as well. at reduced velocities (1400 fps) on goats they blow though with a nice 1" exit hole but speed them up to 2550 fps and they blow up and I assume would be ineffective on large game at short ranges giving surface blow ups.
I want to try then at around 2000 fps on goats to see what sort of penetration I get. Looking for a load suitable for small deer / goats inside 100 mtr when I don't want to use the GK's.
Zq.