6.5mm-06 Loads Advice

Greetings All,
I am just working up a load for a friends 6.5mm-06 for which the data is variable and confusing. The rifle is a rebarrelled (560mm barrel) Remington 721 and the load will be for the 129 grain Nosler Accubond Long Range. Preliminary loads with AR2217 have given velocities well below any of the book data, as did previous loads with AR2213SC and 140 grain projectiles. I am working from a number of data sets, non of which show any similarity with the others. Powder will be AR2213SC as AR2217 just seems too slow to produce the goods in this rifle. The barrel has had around 500 rounds through it and still shoots very well.
So the question is. Is there anybody in the 6.5mm-06 brains trust who has chronographed loads for 129 projectiles, especially the LRAB, for AR2213SC? Any data will be gratefully received.
Regards and thanks Grandpamac.

OK well Im going to take a stab in the dark at this one and suggest MAYBE you have a long freebore so the powder charge will need to be higher as projectile starts to move before full detonation..like a weatherby is supposed to do.LRAB is going to make that even more so being long skinny front end.
I know someone here has one,they worked up load data by going the 30/06-----.280----270----- -------25/06 method your 6.5/06 slotting into the gap so reasonably safe bet charge weight or projectile weight will give you a near as damnit straight line from the data you have got.

I think Bos has one, look him up and message him, he maybe able to help.

Thanks @Micky Duck,
The rifle throat is quite short but I think you are close and the reason is differences in barrel interior dimensions. Much of the data sourced to date is from pressure barrels or custom rifles with typical tight chambers and barrels. The 6.5mm-06 was standardised about 25 years ago as the 6.5mm-06 A2 or the 6.5x64mm Brenneke. Since then data developed in pressure barrels has had much lower charges than previous data. My last load development project was for 7mm-08 loads for 600 yard F class shooting. This was a doddle. The 6.5mm-06 will teach me more I expect. There are a set of rules for determining likely possible velocity compared to other cartridges along the lines of what you suggest which I should dig up and give a twirl.
Regards Grandpamac.

GPMAC,
This one has come up a few times. 6.5/284 data is highly applicable due to similar case volume.
Common theme with both is top velocities >3000 fps with a 140 require charges over book maxes most often. 130 x 3000 should be more in reach.

Here is some additional load book data for 130s.
H4831sc is listed from 48-52 gns 2900-3050 fps. This 1 gn less than for the same pill in the 6.5/284 case in the same Nosler manual.(vol 6)
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...0506ae24b6.jpg


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if you have 130grn .270/280 data and 130grn 30/06 data it will be near enough a straight line you are 7.6mm 7mm and then 6.5mm so it should be close...skinnier hole and all.bottom line if its accurate and not over pressure..leave the bugger alone and just shoot it....I know your next comment will be cant tell if its over pressure without chronicgraph...but I disagree..... 2 identicle rifles with identicle load may have vastly different velocity and pressure
2 identicle rifles with identicle VELOCITY may will have different pressure
far better to have safe middle of range load thats accurate and have bit of wiggle room...well it is in my book anyway.

In my experience 2217 provides excellent accuracy in the big 6.5s but does not show these accuracy nodes at peak velocities. Ie 2850 with a 140 vs 2950-3000 with 2209.


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I found RL25 best in my 6506ai (24in bbl) running 140gn AMAX. 2980 fps with Norma brass & 2950 fps with RP brass.
Had initially tried 2213 & RL19, velocities were anemic. 2217 was better but RL25 was 100fps jump up again. I imagine RL26 would be as good or better.

Ask @Brian on here

Greetings again all,
Thanks for all the suggestions which I will follow up. I mentioned earlier of rules that allow estimation of possible velocity. The rules were developed from chronographed load data and written up by John Barsness in the June 2006 issue of Handloader. The rule for comparing, say the .270 and 6.5mm06 and the 130 grain projectiles was that possible velocity, in cases of equal capacity, varies by 25% of the difference of projectile cross section area. This works out to 2.5% less velocity for the 6.5 from the .270. This works out to around 2,950 fps in a 560mm barrel for the 130 or 129 grain projectiles. None of the Hodgdon data for either AR2213SC or AR2217 gets close to this and the Nosler data exceeds it with less powder. Some test loads need to be shot and chronographed so a likely max charge can be calculated and worked up to. More in due course.
Regards Grandpamac.

Well I'd it's anything like the 264 win mag the two best modern powders are rl26 and rl33. Slower the better
H1000 minimum

I have 2 of the ai versions. Fastest powder is RL 26. I use 22 and 23 in one of my rifles to Dave 26. H1000 also gets good reviews and I've just bought 2209 to use in my shorter barrel one as that is becoming a more popular choice over seas as powder gets harder to come by

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Originally Posted by Huk

Ask @Brian on here

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Yes. @Brian

Greetings All,
I got to the end of my search for a load for my friends 6.5mm-06. After starting with AR2217 and experiencing very low velocities the likely charge needed was calculated which would not fit so it was back to AR2213SC. Previously with 140 grain Interlock projectiles the rifle has needed 2 additional grains of powder to reach Hodgdon or Nosler book velocity so 52 (Nosler max) and 53 grains were tried with 129 grain Interlocks. 2,744 and 2,787fps, a little less than expected. The 129 grain Nosler LRAB are harder than the Hornady and more velocity was expected and was delivered at 2,873 fps, or about the Hodgdons max for the 130 grain AB. More could likely be extracted but this will do for now.
So the question remains. Why is the chronographed data for this rifle so far below both the Hodgdons and Nosler book data? Previous testing in a 6.5x55mm has shown velocities for AR2213SC to be in line with the data and lot tests have revealed no significant changes in speed. Some data from the 80's gives a clue. This shows some data more in line with what I am finding.
So here is my theory. Up until the mid 90's Americans hated anything in 6.5mm (and 8mm) calibre with a passion. This all came crashing down when a certain cartridge appeared in 6.5mm. This unlocked the door and many followed including the previous wildcat the 6.5mm-06. The continentals developed rifling systems to suit the long 6.5mm projectiles with deeper grooves to keep pressure down. In the US tighter bores ruled and these were applied to the 6.5mm-06 when domesticated by A2 around 2,000 before it crashed a few years later. My friends rifle was rebarrelled in the mid 90's. Somewhere in my stacks of old Handloader mags I remember some load data for the 6.5 x 64 Brenneke (6.5mm-.270). Perhaps I should look them up.
Regards Grandpamac.

you have a 130ish grain projectile going between 2700-2900fps and its accurate...so where is the problem??????
JUST USE IT.
I mean the 6.5 crowd are forever crowing about the BC of these skinny projectiles so what you have will hold up pretty darn well as it is..unless said friend is intending to shoots gnats off the moon,will be ranging and dialing up after extensive range testing to verify drops out to beyond next week...what is the point of trying to wring out that last maybe posible 150fps??? it will kill anything you point it at IF YOU point it correctly and poke APPROPRIATE projectile into APPROPRIATE place....and lets be completely honest here...if thats hillar area from slightly rearward angle,pretty much anything will work ,especially if can munt farside shoulder on way out.

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Originally Posted by Mooseman

I think Bos has one, look him up and message him, he maybe able to help.

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Here ya go
49.6 Gr 2213
Win Mag Primer
Norma Cases
Seated to 2.844 in my chamber
Chrony at 5 shot average 2880 fps

Attachment 216711

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

you have a 130ish grain projectile going between 2700-2900fps and its accurate...so where is the problem??????
JUST USE IT.
I mean the 6.5 crowd are forever crowing about the BC of these skinny projectiles so what you have will hold up pretty darn well as it is..unless said friend is intending to shoots gnats off the moon,will be ranging and dialing up after extensive range testing to verify drops out to beyond next week...what is the point of trying to wring out that last maybe posible 150fps??? it will kill anything you point it at IF YOU point it correctly and poke APPROPRIATE projectile into APPROPRIATE place....and lets be completely honest here...if thats hillar area from slightly rearward angle,pretty much anything will work ,especially if can munt farside shoulder on way out.

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Greetings @Micky Duck,
And use that load is exactly what will happen. It is just my nature that when I see an anomaly I just have to dig into it to see what is going on with the load data that is so different to what I am getting. This is magnified by the shite weather we have been getting in HB lately. @Bos has kindly supplied some data in the previous post which will enable me to draw some conclusions in a separate post.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bos

Here ya go
49.6 Gr 2213
Win Mag Primer
Norma Cases
Seated to 2.844 in my chamber
Chrony at 5 shot average 2880 fps

Attachment 216711

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Greetings @Bos,
Thank you very much for that. Using the same AR2213SC powder, I assume, and the 129grain Nosler LRAB we are both getting almost exactly the same velocity. The difference is that I need an additional 3.5grains of powder to get it. I spent part of the morning going through old load data from old Handloader mags and loaddata.com and all of the data from the 1970's and 80's agrees closely to the rifle I am loading. Your rifle is more in line with current data. There must have been some changes to the barrels which would account for this. Some of the loads listed in the old data would take a modern one apart.
Thanks again Grandpamac.

No problem - happy to help
I was using 52 gr Reloder 22 but when Id used all that up, was forced to develop a load with the 2213SC. Not a big deal but 49 gr didn't group that well, nor did 50gr so I settled in the middle only to find that Id set the scales to 49.6, not 49.5.
That thing of mine has a carbon wrapped 22 inch barrel (1:8) so just how much difference that makes is any ones guess

Quote:

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Originally Posted by grandpamac

. Some of the loads listed in the old data would take a modern one apart.
Thanks again Grandpamac.

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nope...WRONG
BECAUSE all good reloaders will have followed the directions printed in every loading manual (yeah right TUI anyone) and reduced by 10% and slowly worked back up....
and that my friends is the difference between then and now...back then,30 or so years ago,people actually worked up a load or just stayed low..now its I WANT IT NOW NOW NOW NOW,,gimmi gimmi gimmi the exact data to use and I will go slay dragons at a mile with no practise....
manuals also used to have load data for weight group of projectile NOT a specific projectile.... people have got lazy and manufactures have got lawyer shy.

Bit late to the party but I get good results with n560 in the 130-140 range, have some 147s to have a play with pne rainy day