ADI 2225 anemic compared to old batch ?

Hey guys and gals,
So I was lucky enough to score a couple tubs of the latest shipment of ADI 2225
My old batch I was loading this for my 270wsm
Specs as follows:
Hornandy 145gn eldx projectiles
Norma brass
CCI LRM primers
Charge weight of 71.5gn
which was certainly hot but fine in my rifle and gave average velocity of 3153 fps with an e.s of less than 10fps

With my new batch whilst still getting great accuracy and no pressure signs even with a well compressed load I am getting nowhere near the velocity I got with the old batch.

Loaded up a ladder today, the only difference being I am now using federal large rifle magnum primers as cci is unobtainable.

69.5gn: 2992, 2998, 2977 fps

70gn: 3015, 3021, 3010 fps

70.5gn: 3037, 3011, 3040 fps

71gn: 3052, 3013, 3058 fps

71.5gn: 3079, 3066, 3050 fps

My old batch

69.5gn: 3098, 3115 fps

70gn: 3116, 3095 fps

70.5gn: 3118, 3136 fps

71gn: 3139, 3158 fps

71.5gn: 3152, 3153, 3151, 3156 fps

It seems to me the new batch is quite a bit slower velocity wise for the same charge weight and with the new powder my best e.s seems to be at 70gn at a avg velocity of 3015fps accuracy was good throught out the charge ladder with all but the lowest charge weight shooting sub MOA.
Now I know that lower velocity will be kinder on hard to replace brass and I am also conflicted because on one hand having a 270wsm I kinda like the idea of having it shoot super flat at higher velocity than a 270win but on the other hand the 270wsm can also do everything a 270win can but in a short action....

Has anyone else found the new shipment of ADI 2225 powder to be substantially slower ?

Yes I know that a 145gn eldx pill doing 3015fps will kill deers out to plenty far enough, it just annoys me that I can't even match the claimed velocity on the box of the factory eldx rounds of 3100fps.
There is definitely no more room in the WSM case to put anymore powder in them as it is very compressed at 71.5gn in my max seating depth.

Anyone got any wisdom to chime in with ?

Attachment 191474

Try a drop tube bro

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Originally Posted by Sakoswarosorted

Try a drop tube bro

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I already use one and trust me ain't gonna squeeze any more powder in there :psychotic:

im like 300-400FPS slower than the box speed with my full lenght barrel tikka t3(previously 7mm08) with the Precision hunter 280rem

the barrel on the test gun must be loose as a goose and 35+inches long

take the box figures with a grain of salt

Have you tested drops at range, same crony?

You deffinately get different results from different batches of powder.
I had a load using 71.5 grns had to drop to 69.5 grans with new batch which was a couple of years ago because the new batch had way more grunt.

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Originally Posted by Bill999

im like 300-400FPS slower than the box speed with my full lenght barrel tikka t3(previously 7mm08) with the Precision hunter 280rem

the barrel on the test gun must be loose as a goose and 35+inches long

take the box figures with a grain of salt

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Oh definitely, just wish the velocity was up there with the old batch.

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Originally Posted by c-dog

Have you tested drops at range, same crony?

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Not yet, and before anyone points it out I know optical chrono's are consistent but not accurate but it should still be within 20fps and all rounds shot today were in same conditions and 5 minutes minimum between shots to allow the barrel to cool.
I think I'm gonna load 3 more at 70gn and run them over a labradar for verification at this stage.

I did try ADI 2217 and was getting marginally better velocity but was getting heavy bolt lift and worse e.s

Hey @dannyb maybe you should have posted those 2 containers of AR2225 on the thread - things I really hate :D

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Originally Posted by 7mm Rem Mag

Hey @dannyb maybe you should have posted those 2 containers of AR2225 on the thread - things I really hate :D

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Either way I don't hate them, just curious more than anything if anyone else has found the new batch to be slower

Your a lucky man I didn’t no there was any 2225 was coming in this shipment, they said no ETA, I put an order in over 12 months ago for some.

Chronograph mate... unless you had some rounds left from the old batch and you fired them on the same day as the new batch?

Has the outside temperature been similar on both occasions of velocity testing? Im not sure if 2225 is temp sensitive, but just a thought, especially if your recent testing was a cold day.

My 22" 270wsm with Federal and Winchester brass, Fed mag primers and 69.5 old batch 2225 and ELDX is 3140fps. So I doubt if its the change of primers that have made the difference to yours.

What did you think of the new 'scope?

Open one of the other new containers of 2225 if they all have the same batch number an see if results as the same. I have had the same thing happen with 2217 but gained a 100fps instead. One trick i herd of is to use half a tub an then mix with a new half tub as it reduces any difference by half.

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Originally Posted by PerazziSC3

Chronograph mate... unless you had some rounds left from the old batch and you fired them on the same day as the new batch?

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Yeah I hear ya but 100fps difference ? :ORLY:

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Originally Posted by Tahr

Has the outside temperature been similar on both occasions of velocity testing? Im not sure if 2225 is temp sensitive, but just a thought, especially if your recent testing was a cold day.

My 22" 270wsm with Federal and Winchester brass, Fed mag primers and 69.5 old batch 2225 and ELDX is 3140fps. So I doubt if its the change of primers that have made the difference to yours.

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Outside temp is similar, pretty sure 2225 is not particularly temp sensitive

If you don't use the exact same components then you can't rule out variables.

You are using different primers and although you wouldn't think it would make that much difference you really have to compare apples with apples.

I know I need to use the federal magnum match, federal magnum no good.

Some good bugger on this forum if sure could throw u a few primers for you to check.

I would say its a combination of new batch of powder and different primers

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 7mm Rem Mag

If you don't use the exact same components then you can't rule out variables.

You are using different primers and although you wouldn't think it would make that much difference you really have to compare apples with apples.

I know I need to use the federal magnum match, federal magnum no good.

Some good bugger on this forum if sure could throw u a few primers for you to check.

I would say its a combination of new batch of powder and different primers

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Whilst i appreciate the input, not much use if I can't get anymore.
I have a very small amount of the old powder left I'm going to load up a few of my old load with the fed mag primers and see how it compares.
Also gonna tee up a session on a labradar to give true velocity now I know where my best e.s is at with the new powder.

Im glad you managed to snag a bit, id say definitely not surprised theres a difference in batches. The factory loads could well be using a proprietary powder that is unavailable to us commoners. Thats about as much as i can help sorry. If your wanting some more velocity the just as hard to come by rl26 would be your friend although im about done with trying it in my saum. Fantastic velocity and pretty good es but rifles just not liking it. 2209 could well be another to try in your wsm, might not seem it but its surprising what works. I ended up using 2209 in my saum with 180 eldm

What I will do with new batch of powder is load some rounds to do the ladder test and compare to the old recipes.
Same thing happened to my 300wsm with 2213. My solution is buy the same batch 4kg of powder each time.👍

if you still have some of the old batch....blend it all together....you might gain a little bit back...or not...and if you really serious about solving the problem GET RID OF THE CHRONICGRAPH...completely...chuck it away...validate your best guess at range and BE HAPPY...its accurate it will kill.

So back to the original question, has anyone loaded up any of the latest shipment of ADI 2225 and how have you found it velocity wise compared to older batches ?

Well hopefully this ought to answer a few questions....

6x 71.5gn old powder with the original load data

6x 70gn new powder with the lowest e.s from latest ladder

6x 71.5gn new powder using original load data

Attachment 191632

These ought to be some of the most precise ammo I've ever loaded. Brass was annealed, full length sized, trimmed, powder hand trickled to exact specs and each round seated then backed die out for next round and slowly worked back in till desired seating depth reached.......farking time consuming but trying to reduce as many variables as possible

sounds all good...dont know about the backing die out for each round bit.... but you will have reason.
did you get trimmer to work???

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

sounds all good...dont know about the backing die out for each round bit.... but you will have reason.
did you get trimmer to work???

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No.....used a mates hornandy one, your one is definitely missing bits :(

You forgot to chamfer? :D only teases. Looks the goods mate hope they go well for you

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Originally Posted by dannyb

No.....used a mates hornandy one, your one is definitely missing bits :(

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bugger....feel free to list all the bits and we sort proceeds later...pretty sure all them fancy pants trimmer bits on handles will be of use to someone with the rest of the bits LOL.

Well met up with Jock at the hand loaders range to run some loads over his labradar.
First up I shot the 6 rounds i loaded with the old batch of powder.
Avg speed was still down on my original load data avg speed was 3100fps and accuracy was as expected.
I can't explain the drop in velocity from my original data where I was getting 3153fps. Either way it's inconsequential as I have almost none of this powder left.
Next up I shot the 70gn load that gave the best ES from the ladder I did with the new powder. Over 6 shots I had an ES of 24fps which I'm happy enough with.
Pictured is the group I shot with it, 1 cold bore then 5 shots all through the bull. I'll call that done. Average speed is 3062fps which is plenty.

Attachment 191802

Strangely the old load data with the new powder showed erratic speed and terrible accuracy with a spread of 3092-3141 fps
So maybe it's not anemic at all. Certainly the labradar showed the in accuracy of the optical chrono.....again.
Thanks to Jock for letting me use your labradar again :thumbsup:

With the 70gn load whether the cold bore caused the shot to the left of the bull or possibly shooter error (pulled) it doesn't matter the other 5 shots went through the bull :cool:

Here is a pic showing the 6 shot group using the original load data and old batch of powder

Attachment 191809


Here is a pic using the original load data with the new powder quite a difference accuracy wise and ES wise.

Attachment 191811

That low flier to the left was the last shot of the string and on inspecting the case after firing it was damaged on the rim which might also explain why it was a little tricky to chamber I the first place.

so worst ES is still less than 50....you have your load sorted...dont use the chrono again and be happy chappy....
great to see you shooting tiny wee groups,thats a dead deer out as far as you can hold it steady....ooops no excuses now bud LOL.

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

so worst ES is still less than 50....you have your load sorted...dont use the chrono again and be happy chappy....
great to see you shooting tiny wee groups,thats a dead deer out as far as you can hold it steady....ooops no excuses now bud LOL.

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Normally I like my ES to be under 20fps or preferebly single digits but in the current situation with component availability I'm not gonna tutu with this load (70gn) clearly it shoots incredibly well and like you said "dead deer out as far" and likely farther than I'll ever likely shoot it, no excuses.

Im going to hold you to that one bud...NO TOOTOOING or else....... leave the plurry load alone
by all means "chuck together" a spook n shoot" with something cheap......LOL.
the amount of components you fellas use on paper makes a tight wad like me cringe.

Some 160gn partitions would be awesome but never seen em in the shops and they ain't bloody cheap either :yaeh am not durnk:

I did offer you some 150 grain grand slams LOL.... will keep an eye out for 160grn partitions...

You are shooting very well Danny, certainly should be a good load near or far, I am with Micky on ammo usage in current times. Took my 300 Rum out yesterday to check scope tracking and only fired 6 shots and the scope seemed to move according to clicks so all good , I burnt 558 grs of powder in those few shots so a pound don't last long.

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

I did offer you some 150 grain grand slams LOL.... will keep an eye out for 160grn partitions...

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Its not a need, more of a want. The eldx are good near or far :D I can get federal fusion 150gn and they would likely do just as good for a close up load.

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Originally Posted by Mooseman

You are shooting very well Danny, certainly should be a good load near or far, I am with Micky on ammo usage in current times. Took my 300 Rum out yesterday to check scope tracking and only fired 6 shots and the scope seemed to move according to clicks so all good , I burnt 558 grs of powder in those few shots so a pound don't last long.

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Thanks :thumbsup: its the rifle it just fits me so well its just easy for me to shoot it well. One day when the right barrel comes along I will re barrel it to a 20" 300wsm but there's no rush to do that with the way it currently shoots :yaeh am not durnk: