Alternative to gas checks

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10-07-2021, 04:17 PM
Three O'Three

Alternative to gas checks

Hi all. I recently bought some non-gas checked boolits, which I believe to be from a Lee mold to try out from a gentleman on trademe. I Looked at acquiring components and equipment to GC these but the initial cost is quite expensive and I only have 100 of boolits, if I was casting my own I'd send the money and buy GC's and equipment without hesitation. Also looked on the net at ways to shoot them without GC's, I read on a few forums a trick of wrapping the boolits with plumbers teflon tap, I wont be doing that again, what a mess to clean. I'm keen to try powder coating, it seems to be a much cheaper option, will I still need GC's? Does anyone know other ways to shoot without GC's or make them? Thanks.
10-07-2021, 04:23 PM
hotbarrels

Brother used to Teflon tape and clear lacquer his non-GC 45-70 cast projectiles for a number of years.
10-07-2021, 04:41 PM
Three O'Three

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotbarrels

Brother used to Teflon tape and clear lacquer his non-GC 45-70 cast projectiles for a number of years.

I didn't used lacquer, maybe thats where I went wrong? Whats the lacquer supposed to do?
10-07-2021, 04:56 PM
Marty Henry

Have you tried firing some as is after just lubing them?
Bullets designed for gas checks (they have a small rebated base a bit like a boat tail) can be shot perfectly well without them.
The only reason for gas checks is to enable you to push them a little faster than you can a plain base, the copper cup helps save the base from melting and cuts down on leading theoretically. But as we all know speed isn't everything.
Most of my moulds are lee and gas check models but I've never fitted one in my life and they work just fine just keep your speeds in the 22 long rifle region.
If you want to try something else I have paper patched bullets for my 577/450 and on one occasion for a 303 that proved troublesome. It's fiddly but can work when everything else fails.
10-07-2021, 05:04 PM
Micky Duck

what about a spacer of cardboard like a beer coaster???? easy in straightwalled case.....
10-07-2021, 05:25 PM
Marty Henry

That used to be used in mk7 ball cartridge for an illustration just look at the avatar of @Cordite
10-07-2021, 05:55 PM
Cordite

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

That used to be used in mk7 ball cartridge for an illustration just look at the avatar of @Cordite

Tar paper wads they are.

Not quite the same application though. Mk VII bullets were exposed lead bottom at the centre, so the disc just took care of shielding that. But it did not need to shield the copper-sheathed sides and base edge. A dab of paint over the exposed lead in the base would have equally done.

Interesting how some powder coat boolits, I understand they use no gas checks then ( but I may be mistaken on that point.)
10-07-2021, 06:34 PM
Three O'Three

Well I am referring to 303 and they are lubed but I can't find any info about these tar paper wads? Like how they're made.
10-07-2021, 06:36 PM
Micky Duck

beer coasters are often used....cut slightly too big and poke down ontop of powder...the fuller the case the better,it will be hard up bum of projectile.
10-07-2021, 06:49 PM
Tedz50

I cut them out of Ice cream container lid for 577\450's and 45/70 custard containers [waxed cardboard ] for the cap and balls.
10-07-2021, 06:58 PM
Three O'Three

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

beer coasters are often used....cut slightly too big and poke down ontop of powder...the fuller the case the better,it will be hard up bum of projectile.

What about cork sheeting? I've been using it as a filler "nitro card" for my 12g loads. Would burning powder burn the wad and dirty the bore? Using 8.5 grain of trailboss so wad won't be touching powder.
10-07-2021, 07:26 PM
Tertle

What calibre are the projectiles?
10-07-2021, 07:31 PM
Micky Duck

8.5grns trailboss you DONT NEED anything...its basically a black powder load.....
10-07-2021, 07:33 PM
Three O'Three

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tertle

What calibre are the projectiles?

.312
10-07-2021, 07:34 PM
Three O'Three

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

8.5grns trailboss you DONT NEED anything...its basically a black powder load.....

No need for GC's?
10-07-2021, 07:39 PM
Micky Duck

nope...I dont use them at all in 45/70 even with smokeless loads....if you were trying to poke projectiles out at 1800 plus fps yeah probably but slow speeds not an issue.
10-07-2021, 07:46 PM
Tertle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Three O'Three

No need for GC's?

No
10-07-2021, 08:10 PM
Marty Henry

That's a mouse fart load as far as speed goes but should be good accuracy wise. Just load, shoot and enjoy.
10-07-2021, 09:23 PM
Cordite

Quote:

Originally Posted by Three O'Three

No need for GC's?

Correct. That is why .22LR at 1200fps have no GCs either .... and there was a recent thread here on NZHS about whether you need to clean .22LR barrels. Clearly no major fouling issue from lack of GC at those velocities. If the rounds are for plinking or targets at relative ahort range, then why bother use GCs to get 1800fps or more?
11-07-2021, 01:08 AM
Three O'Three

Thanks everyone
11-07-2021, 08:06 AM
omark

.314 &.316 works well in mine with the 202gn noe molds and 4227/2205 powder charge

Also the standard unique charge is also accurate

Neither are gas checked
11-07-2021, 08:10 AM
grandpamac

Greetings All,
A few bits of trivia. The card wad in .303 cartridges was there primarily to hold the cordite in place when the case was formed to its final shape. Anyone who has broken down a British .303 cartridge will have wondered how the got the cordite in past the neck. The answer was that the neck wasn't there at the time. None of the other military cartridges I have broken down has the wad. Teflon tape on cast bullets was written up in Handloader in the early 1980's. I fiddled with it for a bit.
Regards Grandpamac.
25-07-2021, 10:58 PM
novembersierra

3 Attachment(s)

Only just stumbled on this thread so apologies for the late response.

I'm churning out 30 cal gas checks using a Checkmaker from Patmarlins and 0.015" aluminium coil from Yonky. Here are some Ranch Dog TLC 311-165-RF I loaded last week.

The checks don't snap on to the shank in the same way that as the Hornadys do. I meticulously cleaned the sprue on each boolit and just placed the gas check on square and as far on as it wanted to go. Passed them through a Lee 311 sizer and there wasn't a single one that wasn't perfect and they shot great at about 1950 fps too.

Would be happy to fire off gas checks in your direction if they're of any use to you.

Attachment 173537

Attachment 173538

Attachment 173539
26-07-2021, 02:29 PM
novembersierra

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mauser308

Nice, had a mate that was making them out of beer cans, only ever wanted to use Lion Red for some reason. Reckoned Waikato was absolutely the worst for gas check material, poor accuracy, crap speeds and the odd pill ended up with the anemic trots and slid out of the end of the barrel...

Ha ha!

Attachment 173580

Despite an occasional cheapskate inclination, I haven't tried beer cans or roof flashing. The ease of production with the precision cut coil is worth every penny. Commercial checks are of the order of 10 cents apiece, I think I'm at 1/20th of that including the cost of the tool and shipping the coil from the UK.

I made my first gas checks about ten years ago, before powder coating was really widespread. Having had a good start with the old school technology I wasn't motivated to try anything else and as I have raw material for better than 50,000 gas checks in stock, that will likely last me until I can't see the target any more.
26-07-2021, 07:00 PM
Tertle

I started making gas checks with various cans, then got on to lithographic plate and grabbed a fair bit of that, heck even sheets of copper shimming material, bit like yourself and made up a stack of GC’s, but so glad i did, as like all things, i put casting aside for a while and its nice to come back to it and have a stack of bits already waiting!
26-07-2021, 07:28 PM
Jhon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tertle

I started making gas checks with various cans, then got on to lithographic plate and grabbed a fair bit of that, heck even sheets of copper shimming material, bit like yourself and made up a stack of GC’s, but so glad i did, as like all things, i put casting aside for a while and its nice to come back to it and have a stack of bits already waiting!

I've been accumulating casting goodies for a couple of years, somewhat indiscriminately I have to say so a bit of an odds & sods collection. We are in the middle of hopefully our last relocation and the good thing is I will have a suitable work area to form my lead collection into ingots and thence into projectiles. Gas check making is high on the list of interest.