Thread: Is AR2209 too powerful for light projectilies?

I cant find any load data for this or any other compatible powders below 150 grain, as far as 303 goes anyway.
Does this sound right?
Im loading mostly 174 grain, but have found a few lighter (somewhere around 120 grain) projectiles that I want to use up at the range.

Powerful isn't the right word. AR2209 will have a similar amount of energy in it, grain for grain, as other powders like AR2208, AR2206H, and AR2217. The difference is the rate at which it releases it.

It takes pressure to force a bullet down a barrel. The heavier, longer, and harder the bullet, the more friction and inertia there is resisting its movement.

You have a balance between the burning powder turning into gas and increasing pressure vs the bullet being driven down the barrel by that pressure and relieving it as it goes.

Heavier bullets tend towards slower powders to keep the peak pressure within safe limits. But use too slow of a powder and the balance is skewed the other way with not enough pressure to get that bullet up to a decent velocity.

If ADI aren't publishing data for 303 with <150gr bullets and AR2209, it'll be because they deemed that the powder is too slow burning to be suitable with bullets that light.

Edit: I loaded some 125gr AK bullets in my 303 ages ago and used H335 which is quite similar to BM2 (a lot faster burning that AR2209).

OK I see, so really this powder is better suited for heavy loads. I probably want to try out some faster burning powders in the future, as it is this powder can literally be filled up to the case brim and not over charge the load.

2206h is probably a good option

Think of it like petrol,diesel and kerosene..... All burn and will explode,they just do so differently.

The only likely problem with using a too-slow powder is an incomplete burn - you could find unburnt powder in the bore. Not likely with a 150gr, but maybe with the 120gr.

A good sign a powders too slow in a particular load is to look down the bore after firing a round. If there are unburnt powder grains it's too slow and burning erratically slightly upping the charge weight sometimes helps as the surface for ignitions a bit larger, heavier pills also work for the reasons Pommy gave (more resistance etc). However the best answer is choose a more suitable powder.

My vote would be for AR2206H due the availability of data for both full power and reduced loads.
GPM.

Looks like thats what I will need, for the few loads I will do in this weight, i cant justify buying a new container of that powder, so will look out for some half empty lots of 2206H at a gun show.

I probably will end up experimenting with some 3031 in the future, which might be suitable. Quite happy with the performance on the 2209 with heavy loads however, will be interesting to see how it performs on the chronograph.

Originally Posted by Old_School

Looks like thats what I will need, for the few loads I will do in this weight, i cant justify buying a new container of that powder, so will look out for some half empty lots of 2206H at a gun show.

I probably will end up experimenting with some 3031 in the future, which might be suitable. Quite happy with the performance on the 2209 with heavy loads however, will be interesting to see how it performs on the chronograph.

IMR3031 is definitely suitable as it is close in speed with most military propellants for the .303.

Originally Posted by Crusty

The only likely problem with using a too-slow powder is an incomplete burn - you could find unburnt powder in the bore. Not likely with a 150gr, but maybe with the 120gr.

Agree. If I only had 30-40 bullets and want to use at range for fun,, I would use the 2209 if it's what I have.

Will just be dirty, inefficient.

Originally Posted by Old_School

I cant find any load data for this or any other compatible powders below 150 grain, as far as 303 goes anyway.
Does this sound right?
Im loading mostly 174 grain, but have found a few lighter (somewhere around 120 grain) projectiles that I want to use up at the range.

Try 2208. Used it to run 150's in 303. Going to try 2219 with 110gr in 308. Not my barrel but they will zip along.

Originally Posted by grandpamac

IMR3031 is definitely suitable as it is close in speed with most military propellants for the .303.

Yes, its supposed to have the closest burn profile to Cordite as far as im aware.
I very nearly went and got some of this last week, but was advised that it is harder on your brass due to the higher pressure, and 2209 seems to be popular among shooters. I still wouldnt mind trying it out to compare however.

Originally Posted by Oldbloke

Agree. If I only had 30-40 bullets and want to use at range for fun,, I would use the 2209 if it's what I have.

Will just be dirty, inefficient.

I was wondering that myself, and dont even have 30 ofthe things, just oddball rounds ive pulled and seperated.
Since I dont have any data to work with, can you safely use a lighter projectile for a load thats for a heavier one? In theory the pressure will only be less?

I am using some old 3031 with 130gn bullets in 30-40 Krag, 303 brass necked down to 30 cal. Shooting good groups at modest charge, 2400 fps, mild recoil, nice to shoot. If you have some available I'd recommend trying it with your lighter projectiles

ADI say 43 to 48c for 174gr bullet.
Pressure will be less.
If it was me, I would just load about 45gr.

What you don't want to do is use too little. There is that "big bang" theory.

Will some one give/sell you 80 or 90 grams of 2206h ?