Best 7.62x39 subsonic loads and tips

Hi all, this is my first post, i hope to use these forums more.

I just ordered my first press and plan to start my learning with this post, I have a crappy old 7.62x39 bolt action Norinco that i have decided to do my learning with, I have shortend it by about 150mm, and sent the barrel away to get threaded, it now has an over barrel suppressor and shoots horribly inaccurate lol, I have also removed the old shitty stock and carved my own stock from some kind of native wood plank i found in the roof of my shed (actually came out really good) I want to have a play around loading up a few types of sub sonic loads, and hopefully get a bit more accuracy from it at the same time, i plan to do all my test with a chronograph.

I am hoping someone here has been down this track before and tested many different powders, projectiles ect and may have a good recipe to start with, Also if anyone would like to throw in some first timer tips that would also be very helpful,

Sure some might be thinking i am wasting time and money on this silly cheap chinese rifle (and your right) but the way i am looking at it is why have a cheap chinese rifle that shoots like a dog and never gets pulled from the cabinet, id rather do all my learning with a rifle that i dont care to much for.

hey, as you have made your own stock the first thing i would do is bed the action....then check the rings and bases .....then the scope .....eliminate all of that then try a few diffrent breeds of ammo my bushranger likes the barnaul 123gr better than the ppu .....once you know it shoots straight then look at reloads as at least then you will have a benchmark to start from.

How did it shoot in the old stock?

On top of Scotty’s advice, check the crown, and check the suppressor to ensure the bullets aren’t striking the baffles.

ADI powders are among the most readily available in NZ, and they offer free load data on their website. Also ensure you use correct .312 bullets rather than .308 bullets. Hornady make a good 125gr hunting projectile in .312.

yip been there,done that with same rifle
contact shootersnz/robert or just buy some of his AWESOME projectiles off trademe
151grn hp cast jobbies
start at 8grns of trail boss with a std primer and work your way down to 6ish till you get sound signiture telling its subsonic or use chrony till 1000fps reached
when I get some more Im going to load them above subsonic and be happy with a quieter than full power load that has more ooomph than true subsonic
I doctor projectiles just a little and can get 14mm wide mushroom on the only projectile recovered from 20 odd Ive head shot my house muttons with...piss poor preformance put me off .22lr and today when tried it again reinforced why I changed to the x39mm in first place.
I seat till lube groove is inside case and they feed fine through mine
find another mag and get it shortened to 3 shot as rifle is so much nicer to carry.
hornady 50 round sst packs of loaded ammo pretty darn good for supersonic stuff
nosler 125grn .308 ballistic tips packs of 2nds off trade me work great too.
feel free to ask any questions you want and Ill try best to answer them....the only dumb question is the one you SHOULDVE asked and didnt.

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Originally Posted by tanqueray

How did it shoot in the old stock?

On top of Scotty’s advice, check the crown, and check the suppressor to ensure the bullets aren’t striking the baffles.

ADI powders are among the most readily available in NZ, and they offer free load data on their website. Also ensure you use correct .312 bullets rather than .308 bullets. Hornady make a good 125gr hunting projectile in .312.

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mine happy with .308 and still goes 2" at hundred yards...the cartridge is ONLY ethical to 150-200 at max so you dont need it to be tack driver.

Making a stock requires some skill at woodwork or machining, so good on you lets see a photo. I also assume you are taking le pisse with the innacurate comment. Although .311-2 is the correct bullet diameter I have one that shoots .308 as accurately and that opens up a whole world of different jacketed bullets, and then heres cast ones that are possibly better subsonic.

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Originally Posted by Marty Henry

. I also assume you are taking le pisse with the innacurate comment. Although .311-2 is the correct bullet diameter I have one that shoots .308 as accurately.

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yea mine likes the .308 better than the .311....
first group after shortening and supressed
Attachment 88309
2nd group swapped out the scope and rings
Attachment 88310
and this after replacing the bases
Attachment 88311

not taking piss at all...... the difference in mine between best loads and worst isnt enough to miss deer at 150 yards. a 2" group is well within ethicle limits for a 150 yard rifle.
I tried the .308 dia projectiles and groups were still within 2" with 4x scope and am more than happy with that for a 150 yard rifle......think 30/30 with open sights or indeed the humble .303 both wont do much better.
that last group is just over 1" so definately usable...

Hopefully I have attached this image correctly, I could have spent more time on it and I still might at some point but it works well for now, Attachment 88777

Thanks heaps heaps for the info mate, that's exactly what I was looking for,

neat looking stock...let us know how you get on.
dont know if Ive mentioned it before...get mag shortened so holds 3 not 5...makes rifle so much nicer to carry.....

Oh yes I was meant to ask about that, did you shorten your mag yourself or did you get it professionally done, I'm pretty handy with metal work also so its something maybe I could look at doing also

was with rifle when I bought it.....looking at it they have chopped bum off it and then spot welded base back on shortened box.

I might give it a try, at some stage and post back. cheers

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

was with rifle when I bought it.....looking at it they have chopped bum off it and then spot welded base back on shortened box.

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Chuck up a pic if you could please, I might lop one of mine off

an update, I was planning to chop my mag then re-weld together as I have a tig ect, but I came up with a far better option, I chopped it to almost flush, then I simply put it upside down in the vice with aprox 1mm protruding out the top of the vice, I then used a flat punch and carefully hammered the edge over it looks like a factory job, really happy, I have also bought me some trail boss and some 151gr lead projectiles from trademe and loaded them to 8.5grs, tomorrow I will test my new weapon, I look forward to it, fingers crossed the weather holds out.

Attachment 91143

Attachment 91144

Very neat idea with the mag. How many does it hold now? 3? Did you shorten the spring? I started having a tutu with one, but the follower got very "divey"

Yea I also shortened the spring, it only holds two in the mag, but one up the spout and two in the mag is fine with me, not often a second shot is needed let alone a third, its so much more comfortable to carry now, yes my follower was rather divey at first, but I have been playing a bit and have nearly got it right, it cycles fine currently but I am yet to do a final pull down and smooth of any rough factory edges.

I could possibly modify it more to hold 3, I could maybe cut the spring down a tad more or even look at a different spring all together, and then maybe do something with the follower to allow it to drop further down

Shortend the spring a tad more and had a bit of a play with the follower, now holds 3 rounds and cycles great, unfortunately raining here today so wont be able to test my first reloads :(Attachment 91149

Perfect, well done

Those projectiles look brutal. How far does the hollow point go back?

the hollow measures at 2.5mm and tapers down to a point approximately 5mm down

seat your bullet out further, as far as the magazine will allow

leave them alone if they work well.mine seat a liitle less deep but I go deep enough to keep the lubed groove inside the case...I believe you will still be supersonic at 8 grns and will be right down to closer to 6grns. poked a couple of these out of my 08 yesterday and they just as much fun out of that as the x39.
plurry tidy job on the mag.

Thanks for the tip mate, im new to reloading and still yet to test them, could you please explain the benefits of seating the projectiles to the length of the mag vs seating the projectile lower, I also have some high velocity projectiles I plan on loading once I get this rifle sorted so all tips and info are welcome. Thanks

The 7.62x39 does not use a 308 projectile but .312"diam'and shooting a 308 lead bullet requires the bullet to bump up to fit the barrel which causes bullet deformity and usually leading of the barrel. The Norinco JW103 has a fairly loose chamber with a steep leade to the rifling. If you use an undersized bullet set back from the rifling in a sloppy chamber the bullet case and projectile are not lined up with the bore and when fired will deform as it enters the bore and unless it bumps up to fill the rifling will then rattle down the barrel with an offset center of gravity which when it exits the barrel will cause a deviation as it then follows the true center of gravity. Seating the bullet further towards the rifling straightens the cartridge up in the chamber and normally improves accuracy. If you take a fired unsized case and fit a projectile in it you will see how much play there is in the chamber. I shoot 205 grain lead bullet sized .314 (1.5 to 2 thou over bore diam) into 1" at 100m(on a good day) .I seat the bullet out as far as the mag allows. I use unique and AP50 with good results.

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Originally Posted by Max Headroom

Those projectiles look brutal. How far does the hollow point go back?

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Here is one recovered from a goat shot at 40 metres velocity 1021FPS, Attachment 91302
I size them .310" so they will work in .308 win and 7.62x39 the 39 bore diameter is .300" groove diameter is .310" the .308 win is .300 x .308"
cast bullets generally require .001" over groove diameter to seal properly, if you use Trail Boss powder it has the same burn rate and pressure curve
as Black Powder and gives the bullet a hefty boot in the base to obturate it into the rifling, Don't try loading much above 1100FPS in the 7.62x39
it will more than likely strip lead from the bullet and foul the barrel, So far no one has complained to me about getting any lead fouling with these bullets.

The Russians designed this cartridge with a .311 projectile, the Americans use .310 . The 3 Norinco 7.62x39 I have owned bore slug to .3115 to .312. (from new) I have found with the right sized projectile and BH they are capable of extreme accuracy up to around 1700fps.

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Originally Posted by KaneB

Thanks for the tip mate, im new to reloading and still yet to test them, could you please explain the benefits of seating the projectiles to the length of the mag vs seating the projectile lower, I also have some high velocity projectiles I plan on loading once I get this rifle sorted so all tips and info are welcome. Thanks

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Driverman explained the case for seating bullets pretty damn well from the point of view of dealing with the specifics of 7.62x39.

Here's my 2 cents on the broader reasons for seating bullets mag length, or deeper.

Seating bullets mag length,ie as long as you can reasonably load them, is a safe bet from the point of view of pressure. The deeper you load them, the more pressure generated inside the case. There's a margin where seating them deeper isn't gonna be a problem particularly, so it's not as if it's a no-no.

The other problem is what's called a compressed load. This is where the bullet is seated so deep that it starts to scrunch up the powder in the case.
Sometimes it can be done, sometimes it's a bad idea. It ramps up the pressure inside the case .
ADI loading tables put a "C" beside compressed loads, eg 40.5C (40.5 grains of powder, compressed load)
Too much pressure, and things like primers popping out or being pierced, cases separating inside the rifle,and other unsettling stuff happens.

Trailboss doesn't like being compressed. It may not actually be dangerous ( debatable) but the performance of the loads is said to become erratic.

The other reason for seating at mag length is that the projectile is sitting in the chamber a little bit closer to the rifling than it would be otherwise.
Rifling is composed of lands and grooves.Think of this as being like a rut in a muddy field. The lands are the high edges of the rut , the grooves are the bottom of the rut.

Once it's fired, the lands grip the projectile and spin it, making it stable.

The notion ( as I understand it) is that the shorter the jump for the projectile from the neck of the case to the lands, the better.
I think it helps with bullet stability in flight.

Each rifle has a sweet spot for seating projectiles that it responds to best. Some people swear by seating projectiles long like this, some say that their rifle works better when they do the opposite.

The main thing is not to seat the projectile so deep that there's a kaboom, and your rifle turns into a cloud of flying parts.

There's more to it than this, but that's the short version.

It would be a good idea to google "rifle case overpressure signs" and look at pictures of loads that show danger signs. I generally look at my cases when I've fired them to see if there are any indicators.

some cartridges...the .308 winchester for one... were designed in such a way that it is better to seat the buller really well in the case so it can line itself up with aid of case neck before it makes a "space walk" into the beginning of the rifling.
my norinco loves those 151s and havent seen leading as an issue...yes the cleaning patches come out black...but not a major issue.

bottom line is experiment and FIND OUT WHAT YOUR RIFLE prefers.....

The black stuff is only carbon and bullet lube, if the lube runs out before the projectile leaves the barrel you will get leading, check the muzzle
it should have a star shaped deposit of lube if so the lube is working properly, lead fouling starts out with little flakes of lead that get bigger
if not cleaned out with solvent soaked patches it ends up as long streaks of lead which are bastards to clean out

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Originally Posted by scotty

hey, as you have made your own stock the first thing i would do is bed the action....then check the rings and bases .....then the scope .....eliminate all of that then try a few diffrent breeds of ammo my bushranger likes the barnaul 123gr better than the ppu .....once you know it shoots straight then look at reloads as at least then you will have a benchmark to start from.

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Hi, I’ve had the exact same results with a Ruger ranch rifle. PPU shoots rubbish. Barnaul shoots 100m around 1.5-2” groups. I found out why. PPU projectile was a tad over .308 diameter. Barnaul .310”. PPU is only good for gathering brass (in my gun)

I’m going to develop a sub load using 180 grain boat tails (.310”) not .308.
I’m going to use AR2207 start at 14grains. Work down to 12 and then 10 and finally 8grains. Hopefully I can borrow a crony and stop when 1000-1100 FPS. I’m thinking that 10 grains will do it. But afraid of getting a stuck projectile. Better to start high and work down.
Cheers