Bullet seating depth and OAL issues

So I have sat down to do my first ever reloads and I have hit a bit of an impass.

I am trying to load .223 with barnes tsx 55gr. The load data says gap from rifling lands to bullet should be .050 or 1.27mm. When I put a bullet in a empty cartirige and seat it by putting it in the rifle and closing the bolt, I get an OAL of 60.02, more or less. Max OAL according to the die set is 57.4mm, this means that unless I am mistaken if I seat to maximum OAL I will have a 2.62mm/.103" jump to the rifling.

Rifle is a Zastava .223

I am probably doing something wrong, help please!

Also, one cartrige the primer didnt go quite flush, any suggestions on if I should rework or just dispose of that one.

Cheers
Guy

I hack sawed a round from neck to shoulder to give me an indication on where the lands are. I get repeatable results. There is not much resistance when pushing projectile into lands so if you have a standard fired case you probably won't be getting a good reading on the lands. You'll be pushing projectile into the lands. Check projectile for marks to confirm.

If primer is poking out put it back in priming system and push it in, unless you're worried there is something under it. If primer is too deep I'd just load it up anyways. You could fire primer, de-prime then reprime.

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Originally Posted by Guypie

So I have sat down to do my first ever reloads and I have hit a bit of an impass.

I am trying to load .223 with barnes tsx 55gr. The load data says gap from rifling lands to bullet should be .050 or 1.27mm. When I put a bullet in a empty cartirige and seat it by putting it in the rifle and closing the bolt, I get an OAL of 60.02, more or less. Max OAL according to the die set is 57.4mm, this means that unless I am mistaken if I seat to maximum OAL I will have a 2.62mm/.103" jump to the rifling.

Rifle is a Zastava .223

I am probably doing something wrong, help please!

Also, one cartrige the primer didnt go quite flush, any suggestions on if I should rework or just dispose of that one.

Cheers
Guy

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This is hard to follow.
Iv never seen load data tell you how much jump you should use? Oal, yes, not jump. ( Not that I usually look, just find the lands, start with a small jump, if it fits in the mag)
It gets hard to follow mixing imperial with metric.
Are you also saying your seating die is wound right out and it seats too deep, still? How is the die set telling you the oal?
Are you somehow mixing oal measurements up with ogive measurements?

Sorry if its a bit messy, Barnes recommends .050" jump to the lands for TSX bullets.

If I do that overall length will be 2.310"

the load data for my powder says OAL should be 2.180" (this could be a minimum OAL for pressure reasons maybe?)

the instructions that came with my die set says 2.260" is maximum OAL for .223 (this might just be for magazine feeding possibly?)

So I guess what I'm asking is:
is an overall length of 2.310" in a bolt action ok?
if not is it ok to have .100" of bullet jump to the lands?

Because I believe those are my options, unless I am way off course.

RE: feather and shoot

I did cut a case and use that to measure with a bit less neck tension, I got a slightly smaller measurement to lands. But it would still give a .070" jump to lands at max length.

Ok, I'm with you now.
Saami (I think that's spelt right) is a measurement to fit all rifles. The people that publish data don't know where your lands are.
Ok, Barnes recommend 50 thou jump.
The powder data oal, will be saami data. You don't really need this, and it confuses the situation because you know where your lands are.
The die set is probably saami as well, don't worry about that either.

Start again, here is what I suggest.
Take a lands measurement. (Touching) Wright that down.
I normally start from ten thou jump to the lands. And during testing seat deeper, if I have no joy. It's safer than starting deep and seating back out, most people wouldn't do that.
If you want to you could start at your 50 thou jump. Whatever you do because your new at it make a dummy round and make sure it fits and feeds in the mag. Also chamber it and carefully extract it. Make sure it does chamber. And check to see there are no marks on the projectile. Which means you do actually have jump, the lands haven't scratched marks on the projectile. Color it with a pen if you like.
From there start loading from min to max. (Check other things like case length, and keep an eye on pressure signs)

Hope that makes sense and helps, good luck.

Cheers, that's just what I needed.

I said if you want to you could start at your 50 thou jump. But I don't really recommend that.
You could start at 15 or 20 thou and work your way deeper if you have no joy. Just depends on mag length.
Myself I haven't used Barnes bullets, and starting at ten thou jump have never tested more than about 30 thou deep/jump. Iv never had magazine restrictions. And often start at 10 thou jump and find a load there. Just see how it goes.

There's lots to the reloading game, and often people do things different. But most at least try to do it safely.

Great description Bully...I have been loading to saami spec myself due to being hung up on OAL in the same way. Might Taylor loads in this way now.
Good luck with your load guypie.

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Originally Posted by bully

I said if you want to you could start at your 50 thou jump. But I don't really recommend that.
You could start at 15 or 20 thou and work your way deeper if you have no joy. Just depends on mag length.
Myself I haven't used Barnes bullets, and starting at ten thou jump have never tested more than about 30 thou deep/jump. Iv never had magazine restrictions. And often start at 10 thou jump and find a load there. Just see how it goes.

There's lots to the reloading game, and often people do things different. But most at least try to do it safely.

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Barnes recommendation of 0.050" is worth noting. Being monolythic they don't work the same as conventional bullets. Pressure spikes faster IIRC due to the construction of the Barnes. The Barnes bullets I have used shot just fine all the way out to 0.100" jump and I would bet even further is OK.

Barnes I have run liked between 40 and 60 thou jump for accuracy in the rifles I have run them in.
Cup and core projectiles I usually start with 10 thou or whatever the longest length that will fit and function in the magazine whichever is the shorter.

Thanks James, cam. Filling in the gaps, I knew there was something like this. It just seemed odd to start at 50.
Iv never used this type of bullet.

So a little update, I loaded up my rounds at .050" jump, 3 with 22.8gr, 3 with 23.3gr and 3 with 23.8gr of ar2208.

Best group came from 23.3gr at 1 5/8", consistently shot to the left of where the cross hair was pointed (sighted with PPU, hornady training goes to same POI), the hotter the load the further to the left it went. Elevation was pretty good and my gun did not explode in my face which was lovely. Always a boost to the confidence when things go well first time around!

I think I will stick with the 23.3gr and maybe have a play with bullet seating depth to see if I can get under 1" and then call it done.

Any comments on why it may go to the left?

Note: I'm not a fantastic shooter, it may well be shooting MOA and I'm letting it down by the 5/8", but the projectiles are not cheap so I wont be perfecting my skills with these rounds!

@Guypie

Check this you tube vid of mine out it will help explain."......... Hellcheck all my videos out, I love to have them go viral

https://youtu.be/Kz9na5545Gg


Btw 80 to 100" jump is nothing to worry over

Cheers
Pete

Quote:

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Originally Posted by P38

@Guypie

Check this you tube vid of mine out it will help explain."......... Hellcheck all my videos out, I love to have them go viral

https://youtu.be/Kz9na5545Gg


Btw 80 to 100" jump is nothing to worry over

Cheers
Pete

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@P38 Just viewed and subscribed :thumbsup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by P38

@Guypie

Check this you tube vid of mine out it will help explain."......... Hellcheck all my videos out, I love to have them go viral

https://youtu.be/Kz9na5545Gg


Btw 80 to 100" jump is nothing to worry over

Cheers
Pete

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Sweet, yeah that's how I did it. Love the golf ball mortar and black powder cannon! Might have to make one myself. Any legality issues around building one of those?

It's a good feeling when your first ever hand loads don't blow your head off.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Guypie

So a little update, I loaded up my rounds at .050" jump, 3 with 22.8gr, 3 with 23.3gr and 3 with 23.8gr of ar2208.

Best group came from 23.3gr at 1 5/8", consistently shot to the left of where the cross hair was pointed (sighted with PPU, hornady training goes to same POI), the hotter the load the further to the left it went. Elevation was pretty good and my gun did not explode in my face which was lovely. Always a boost to the confidence when things go well first time around!

I think I will stick with the 23.3gr and maybe have a play with bullet seating depth to see if I can get under 1" and then call it done.

Any comments on why it may go to the left?

Note: I'm not a fantastic shooter, it may well be shooting MOA and I'm letting it down by the 5/8", but the projectiles are not cheap so I wont be perfecting my skills with these rounds!

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In my experience, Barnes bullets are temperamental things to get to shoot. Some rifles love them, some don't.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Guypie

Sweet, yeah that's how I did it. Love the golf ball mortar and black powder cannon! Might have to make one myself. Any legality issues around building one of those?

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No legal issues other than that which applies to any other standard fire arm.

Cannons are not endorsed firearms.

Drop me a line if your thinking of building a cannon and I'll fill you in on some design features and dimensions that you will need to know.

Cheers
Pete

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Guypie

So I have sat down to do my first ever reloads and I have hit a bit of an impass.

I am trying to load .223 with barnes tsx 55gr. The load data says gap from rifling lands to bullet should be .050 or 1.27mm. When I put a bullet in a empty cartirige and seat it by putting it in the rifle and closing the bolt, I get an OAL of 60.02, more or less. Max OAL according to the die set is 57.4mm, this means that unless I am mistaken if I seat to maximum OAL I will have a 2.62mm/.103" jump to the rifling.

Rifle is a Zastava .223

I am probably doing something wrong, help please!

Also, one cartrige the primer didnt go quite flush, any suggestions on if I should rework or just dispose of that one.

Cheers
Guy

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Save yourself some grief. Seat to the cannelure and stoke with 25gr BM2. Repeatable ,reliable, kills like hell. Job done.