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OK here's the question
Who is using subs in the trusty 308 to harvest animals?
Im looking for the following info to help me make a decision on a rifle purchase;
#maximum effective range once practiced
#projectile selection with barrel twist rate
#alternatives to trail boss as I'm running low
My idea is that I would like a dual sub/super shooter with the shortest barrel possible. Im looking at rem foot prints in short action and left hand.
Cheers for the feedback
Don't bother unless your going to really get serious about sighting in,is my advice.lots of fun but supers are just so much easier. Great to have a few in pocket for really close pesty smaller stuff or finishing shot. But not for serious stuff for me.
Going the opposite route. 110gr. Waiting for Maker to arrive... 2028? Think the light loads in 308 create death with low recoil.
Yup find them great for that purpose onlyQuote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
Type into Google: site:nzhuntingandshooting.co.nz 308 subsonic
There are pages of threads - fill ya boots
Dropped a fallow stag at 37m with 205gn cast HP. Tried them on goats at 50-60m. 5 in a 4in group at the range on paper. But dropping power at 50-60m did not impress me. Shoulder shots in dinner plate area. Goats dont tend to stand all that still when being shot at repeatedly. Went and got my Ruger 223.
I would use the 308 sub now under 50m in heavy cover with a 200+ grain bullet preferably under 40m. Or for mercy shots close up. Good for stalking close up on an unsuspecting animal. Load the same bulket up to 1400 - 1600fps= different story.
Peregrine bullets sold by owl optics here in Nz. 155 gr if you have a standard factory twist barrel.
Or go 188gr if you get a custom job done with 1 in 8 or 1 in 7 twist.
And don’t look back.
Other option could be the Winchester 185 gr subsonic if you can find some. À mate of mine has now killed three deer with them
Said it before, will continue to say it, purpose built subsonic lathe turned projectiles are the only way forward for accurate reliable terminal performance out to extended ranges
Not the cheapest for sure but definitely the ticket for successful hunting outcomes
If you want super quite/silentish you need a longer barrel rather than shorter and or more suppressor forward & efficiency
Interesting. I've not used lathe turned projectiles. I do agree with the longer barrel and the idea of more suppressor forward makes sense. The combination kind of goes against current trends of "how short can I go and why can't I still get 2995fps and shoot MOA at 650m?"...Anyway. Our bush on public lands, what's left of it, is a different proposition to woods hunting in the Northern Hemisphere where 24inch barrels when they came along were no doubt considered short. My 38-55 Uberti High Wall 1885 replica is a "Sporting Rifle" with a 30in barrel lol. But a format which no doubt put plenty of meat on the table in its day. Probably helped if you had a serf or two accompanying you as bearers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi Greg
Anyway, enough digression. Re subsonics and lathe turned monolithic projectiles, what do you consider "extended ranges" to be? Genuinely interested.
Im thinking that yesteryear, while not subsonic, a lot of low velocity kills were chalked up with well made cast bullets with muzzle velocities in the 1200-1800 fps range. The sweet spot probably being around 1400-1500 and ranges depending on cal being out to 150m plus but probably grouping around an average of 50-80m - but someone better informed on cast bullets can chip in here.
Im heading down that cast bullet track myself. Not because it's necessarily better or the best but because I can and it's fun (to me). Also I don't have a lathe. And I like to shoot as much as possible on the range the same loads as I occasionally get to hunt with. Cast = wallet efficient. So it would take a lot to get me to go to an expensive purchased premium bullet unless it did waaaay more than I can make at home. Of course not everyone who doesn't have a lathe wants to muck around with melted lead.
But if the argument was convincing Id certainly consider saving cast for low cost fun and going to a few monolithic lathed projectiles for certainty of kill at better ranges, if thats what you are offering.
Cheers.
Generally with good 300Blk, 308 & 450 Bushmaster's I have found the lathe turned Lehigh Defense monos will easy shoot moa & touching or nearly at 100 isn't uncommonQuote:
Originally Posted by Jhon
One of my part time pest control customers uses 45 subs out past 4-500 yards with a ballistic scope, but he shoots ALOT & has his stuff together in more ways than most guys could even fathom
I don’t worry too much about projectile terminal ballistics with subsonics, I haven’t used lathe turned projectiles, but my general experience and resulting opinion is that CNS shots are the only reliable way to use subsonics, and if you’re putting a projectile into the brain, then projectile construction doesn’t matter as much as accuracy. So use whatever is accurate and put it in the brain is my 2c.
Max range is probably about 50-75 or maybe out to 100 if you’re lucky, if you really do your homework and have the right gear you can get further, but I have found that in the same way that variations become exponential for full power loads out past 400, variables for subsonics start to get exponential from somewhere around the 80-100 space. Ability to hit the brain usually runs out before ability to reach the brain.
My basic cheep and cheerful sub load is 165gr over 10gr tb. It is very quiet in an 18” barrel, on par with suppressed .22 subsonic. But I tried it in a 14” barrel a week ago and it was much louder, I suspect it may have even been just pushing into supersonic territory due to less barrel friction.
With a good lathe turned purpose built sub sonic projectile of appropriate calibre you can easily shoulder shoot & quickly kill an animal out past 100 if you have your ballistics sorted
https://hosting.photobucket.com/c75a...720&fit=bounds
The 450 220 LH is 44mm, 1.73" across the star, most subs sighted in at 75 are 1-1.5" high at 25 & 50 then 6" low at 100
The shorter a barrel is the louder it will be, regardless of calibre or velocity, my 16" 450BM is way louder than my 22" one with the same load & suppressor, it is still subsonic
Yes pretty much what I've been figuring. My particular accuracy has not been up to head shots out at 50-75m. Combination of older basic rifle, plain vanilla 3-9×40 optic, and older worn out shooter - with Roberts cast bullets. Im thinking tho that there is no reason a good rifle with a good shooter and a good cast bullet can't do everything a lathe turned bullet can do. @kiwi_greg I appreciate what your bloke can do out to 500yds and would love to spectate on that but as you say, probably beyond most of us. The lathe made bullets come into their own in that instance but really do so for the average good shooter who has no time or interest or capacity to fart around with casting and chasing an effective accurate load. Cheers.Quote:
Originally Posted by longshot