Casting.....lead, tin and Antimony supply?

Hello casters,

I’m new to casting and bought a Lee casting pot (the bigger one) and a .44 die, gloves etc and have used up my first 4.5 kg of Lyman #2. I was hoping to go next level and make my own alloy. Do any of you make your own? Have you got a good recipe for a good cowboy .44 mix and suppliers for your materials?

I’ve looked at TM and lots of lead is available but some could be crap and a bit of an unknown. Lots of got sheet lead that looks ok. Where would one get Tin and Antimony from?

Just looking for an easy pathway for materials. I don’t need to make lots, maybe around 20kg a year worth of bullets.

Cheers

scrap metal dealers... i saw a keel off a yachttata being cut up with a chainsaw once... my eyes popped out of my head at the sight of so much grey gold!

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Originally Posted by 40mm

scrap metal dealers... i saw a keel off a yachttata being cut up with a chainsaw once... my eyes popped out of my head at the sight of so much grey gold!

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Peter Blake accidentally dumped something like a ton (molten) on his front lawn in Bayswater while trying to cast a keel as a young man

Scrap metal dealers are a good source but so is scrounging old building sites and indoor rifle clubs produce a suprising amount of lead. Wheel weights contain antimony plus lead rarely any tin, lead head nails are pure lead, old lead piping is pure also, stick solder varies between 25 and 50% tin the stick will be stamped with the number.
I use mostly wheel weights and add tin as solder if needed. I make about 5 kg at a time. Ive never been too hung up on specific alloys but i do test a new batch by casting a bullet and putting it nose to nose with one from the last lot in a vice and seeing if they compress the same.
Pure lead i only use for round ball or mine.
Its a long dark rabbit hole you are starting down that inevitably leads to paper patching and strange behaviour like looking for lost sinkers at the beach.
For your 44, and low power loads pure lead would be ok but i suspect wheel weight or pretty much any alloy would do.

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Originally Posted by Mauser308

Tin powder was available on tm, you can find an old time recipe on mixing wheel weights and also pure lead to make no2 alloy. No idea for the antimony though

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Thanks Mauser, I’ll check out TM for tin powder. I guess wheel shops would sell old wheel weights too. Just hope it’s pure lead and not some weird concoction that will ruin a good batch.

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Originally Posted by Marty Henry

Scrap metal dealers are a good source but so is scrounging old building sites and indoor rifle clubs produce a suprising amount of lead. Wheel weights contain antimony plus lead rarely any tin, lead head nails are pure lead, old lead piping is pure also, stick solder varies between 25 and 50% tin the stick will be stamped with the number.
I use mostly wheel weights and add tin as solder if needed. I make about 5 kg at a time. Ive never been too hung up on specific alloys but i do test a new batch by casting a bullet and putting it nose to nose with one from the last lot in a vice and seeing if they compress the same.
Pure lead i only use for round ball or mine.
Its a long dark rabbit hole you are starting down that inevitably leads to paper patching and strange behaviour like looking for lost sinkers at the beach.
For your 44, and low power loads pure lead would be ok but i suspect wheel weight or pretty much any alloy would do.

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Thanks Marty Henry. Maybe I should get a hardness tester too. Yes I suspect this is going to be an interesting journey! �� I just want to avoid leading my new Winchester hence bringing the hardness up a bit. Would a lead tin mix with no Antimony be hard enough to run 1000fps without leading?

Where are you based?

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Originally Posted by ihmsakiwi

Where are you based?

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Hi ihmsakiwi, I’m in Pukekohe.

I'm in 'kura!!

Happy to meet and give you some nice clean wheelweight ingots for free. As Marty mentioned it may need a little sweetening with some tin for better mold fillout. I used to fill the 10lb Lee pot with ingots, throw in some solder for tin, maybe a small stick 3" long of 50% tin solder or somethimes just about 2 TBSP of lead shot which also gave you a bit of arsenic. The wheelweights by default have the antimony in them.

it isn't a pure science because even wheelweights are not created equal.

The bigger the initial melt the better. I used to fill a cast iron camp oven with my mix, probably 20 litres of molten lead, clean the hell out of it, add some pure lead, a little linotype and call it a day.
I would then use my Lee hardness tester to ensure it was within cooey of my previous batch harness wise ( around Lyman #2) and shoot it.
I shot this same mix in 357, 357 SuperMag, 44Mag, 7mmBR, 22 Hornet, 30/30, 7mmTCU, 30BR and others. Never had any leading.
Then you can start on the black art of making your own bullet lube. I shot my own lube for years and never had leading up to 2200 fps ( Ithink; I'd need to check my data when I get home).

Beware the Zinc wheelweights, they will totally ruin your day.

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Originally Posted by ihmsakiwi

I'm in 'kura!!

Happy to meet and give you some nice clean wheelweight ingots for free. As Marty mentioned it may need a little sweetening with some tin for better mold fillout. I used to fill the 10lb Lee pot with ingots, throw in some solder for tin, maybe a small stick 3" long of 50% tin solder or somethimes just about 2 TBSP of lead shot which also gave you a bit of arsenic. The wheelweights by default have the antimony in them.

it isn't a pure science because even wheelweights are not created equal.

The bigger the initial melt the better. I used to fill a cast iron camp oven with my mix, probably 20 litres of molten lead, clean the hell out of it, add some pure lead, a little linotype and call it a day.
I would then use my Lee hardness tester to ensure it was within cooey of my previous batch harness wise ( around Lyman #2) and shoot it.
I shot this same mix in 357, 357 SuperMag, 44Mag, 7mmBR, 22 Hornet, 30/30, 7mmTCU, 30BR and others. Never had any leading.
Then you can start on the black art of making your own bullet lube. I shot my own lube for years and never had leading up to 2200 fps ( Ithink; I'd need to check my data when I get home).

Beware the Zinc wheelweights, they will totally ruin your day.

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Wow that’s awesome! Thanks for the great info and the offer of some ingots. I’m happy to give some cash so your not out of pocket. I’ll PM you when I get home from my work trip (Sat afternoon). How do you know if the wheel weights have zinc in them?

I suggest you become an active reader / member of the below website. Everything and more that you could ever need to knopw about casting, lube, paper patching, powder-coating bullets in lieu of lube etc etc.

castboolits.gunloads.com

Zinc goes Tink!!
Lead goes thud!

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Originally Posted by ihmsakiwi

I suggest you become an active reader / member of the below website. Everything and more that you could ever need to knopw about casting, lube, paper patching, powder-coating bullets in lieu of lube etc etc.

castboolits.gunloads.com

Zinc goes Tink!!
Lead goes thud!

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Awesome cheers, I have been scrolling though that site. It’s excellent. Also just watched a couple of YouTube videos explaining the zinc ‘tink’. I’m getting excited. Going to get some muffin dishes for ingot making and a big pot. Will also get a hardness tester.

Cheers for your help.

Also zinc melts nearly 100 degrees higher than lead antimong tin mixes so any wheel weights floating on to along with those little clips get binned.
There have been attempts to cast zinc bullets with some sucess but they are a lot lighter and bloody hard so the idea never took off properly.

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Originally Posted by Marty Henry

Also zinc melts nearly 100 degrees higher than lead antimong tin mixes so any wheel weights floating on to along with those little clips get binned.
There have been attempts to cast zinc bullets with some sucess but they are a lot lighter and bloody hard so the idea never took off properly.

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Just saw that in a YT vid! I saw another on what contaminated lead zinc looks like. Not a pretty thing!

the actual wheelweights are ubually easy to spot as they usually have the weights molded into the body of the weight whereas 99% of lead ones don't.
Also some have a brand molded in which lead doesn't.

As as I alluded to when you bang zinc together they tink with a higher pitch whereas you know lead is just a dull thud.

Zinc also plays havoc with your molds apparently although I haven't experienced it.

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Originally Posted by Mauser308

Gas checks are another option.

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I looked into these. Doesn’t seem to be any gear available to lube and seat them so went basic. Also I’m not intending to go high velocity. Just around the 1000fps mark.

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Originally Posted by omegaspeedy

Thanks Marty Henry. Maybe I should get a hardness tester too. Yes I suspect this is going to be an interesting journey! �� I just want to avoid leading my new Winchester hence bringing the hardness up a bit. Would a lead tin mix with no Antimony be hard enough to run 1000fps without leading?

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For 1000 fps pure lead, wheel weight all would be fine its only when you start getting up to 1600 plus that you really need to think about special alloys, and beyond that theres gas checks.

Agree with Marty about just using pure lead or WW. If you need something harder you can quench them.

Regarding gas checks, the cheapest method is to use an appropriately sized Lee Sizing Die, they’re about $35. They make them in .430 which will do your .44, although I’d slug the bore first to ensure it isn’t oversized.