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I forgot about my brass I put in the oven to dry after tumbling. Looks like I annealed the whole batch.
180 degrees for 30 minutes, I was meant to lightly warm the oven then turn off leaving the fan going. Bloody TV distracted me.
Would you still use it?
Attachment 69333
I am not a metallurgical whizz but no I personally wouldn't use it.
50°-100° is all you need but for a bit longer.
Dehydrator if ya have one works better.
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Yeah thanks, I thought the same.
I've binned them.
In theory though you should be alright. The temperature at which strength begins to be affected in brass is close to 240 celcius according to the chart below. Despite this I'm inclined to agree with R93 and err on the side of caution.
I too would err on the side of caution, but it would be interesting to do the crush test with pliers to see how much softer they are than virgin brass.
Where'd you get that graph from @Puffin ?
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Is that a graph? Looks like a drawing from my 2 yo :D
In my understanding they get very hot for a very short period of time. There is not a huge amount of heat energy released per shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by 7mmwsm
So annealing metals is a time a temperature equation, so low heat- long time or high heat - short time for brass. It's different for different metals depending on Crystal structure.
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Id use em, well below annealing temp.
Hmmm... tricky to recall now, but my best guess would be that I copied it from a posting by The Firing Line & Shooters' Forum stalwart Unclenick. It appears to be taken from a metallurgy text.Quote:
Originally Posted by Feather or Shoot
I park em for 30 mins at 100 degrees C (with the timer on) cos I'm a dumb shit and bound to forget and miss the timer. Worst case is I just have very very dry brass. Then, once timer goes, I just switch the oven off and crack the door for half an hour to let them cool.
If you look at that graph it says it's for one hour. I'm guessing if you left the brass hot for ages the temperature required to anneal would be less.
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From what I've read that isn't the case. Annealing doesn't start at all until a particular temperature is reached. Then it proceeds very quickly. Is that right? I'm no expert.
@Feather or Shoot I recently came across the following:
http://web.nchu.edu.tw/~jillc/me/Ch1...0Treatment.pdf
Pages 33-37
I would use them, they look badass in that colour, and you don't want to miss an opportunity to have some badass looking ammo
Where do people think they would fail? They are encased by a solid metal chamber and can only expand as far as that allows. After all it is not the brass itself that contains the pressure is it. It is the bolt face at the rear and the barrel surrounding the case????? Will it split at the neck? Be extracted in two pieces?
That's some confusing stuff @Puffin!Quote:
Originally Posted by Puffin
I get that softening happens during the re crystallization temperature boundaries of 200& 500°C. I don't get how they don't show time on that graph. They then refer to the annealing of brass at 580°C being totally re crystallized after 8 seconds.
Interesting that the more worked brass is the less temperature it takes to anneal.
In the steel section they talk of age hardening at low temperatures for long times, I wonder if brass age softens when treated the same.
Any idea what hardness we are aiming for when annealing cartridge brass?
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i'd think they'd be ok?
they are never going to hold in the pressure, that's the job of the chamber/bolt, they might be soft to resize without collapsing till hardened again tho....
oops, just saw Shearer's post after skimming to the bottom.... I'm with him :thumbsup:
oh, and the anneal temp looks like 250c in that graph, for some kinda brass.....
reach temp, hold for time of choice to be certain chrystals are aligned, then cool at some rate that doesn't bring in more stresses....
brass harden with work, steel by quick cool to lock in new Chrystal structure.
Wouldn't the shoulder crush when resizing, Primer pocket expand, and neck run into the throat on firing?Quote:
Originally Posted by Awaian
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yes for resize, not sure about the rest, possible?
load light.... suck n see
or scrap em, get more, don't multitask till after the new skirt purchase cos you're not designed for it.
Dont know if this will help, its from a 1964 lyman book basically as I read it, a case annealed to the same crystal structure right through is not a good thing, but forrm your own opinion.
nice info, thanks Marty Henry, flat out says its stuffed (when case completely annealed).
also like to apologise if my flippant comments don't get received well. (ie last post), sometimes can be a bit blokey and i realise we don't all know each other so well.
Weirdly, it says the neck needs to be harder than the rest. But those small crystals tell me it's softer than the rest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Henry
😥
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So are none of you quenching? Critical part of annealing....
For steels, not for brass according to the literature.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wirehunt
Not completely unfortunately. The head around the perimeter for the few millimetres where it emerges from the chamber - from the upper edge of the extraction groove back - is not supported. I have brass from this part of a case embedded in various parts of me so would encourage everyone here to err on the side of caution when it comes to things that might affect case heads.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shearer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feather or Shoot
Agree. I'm assuming that time is fixed, but no figure has been given, and then the crossing of the data plots in figure 10-33 is unintuitive. Also online searches reveal a differing in opinion over whether low temperature "age" annealing is possible. If I was sufficiently motivated I'd spend a day up at the VUW library trying to get to the bottom of it as it is in the area of my educational background, but my DIY inductive annealer has recently appeared to result in a halving of vertical dispersion out to 1000 metres so I'm content at the moment to engage in casual reading on the topic, follow the debate in an ill-informed manner, while enjoying the practical benefits !
once at temp it's done.
a soak is held to be sure all the object of interest has time to be affected evenly, so some tens of minutes depending on the heating implement.
flame/oven etc and metal thickness/mass
Always wanted to do a DIY induction annealer. Where'd you get the parts and plan from? Or is this original puffin magic?Quote:
Originally Posted by Puffin
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We always did this old school, container of water at the right level on the cases, get to the right colour with the gas torch, a shake to quench. I'd say the commercial outfits are doing the same going by the case colour when you get them.
