Down loading 243 win to 6x45 velocities

Ive been keen on a smaller case 6mm for a while.

Something burning a smaller amount of powder with light recoil, with a view to stepping my young kids up from rimfire and 223 eventually.

Something around the case capacity and bullet weight and speeds of a 6x45.

I had the opportunity a year or so back to pick up a nice model 7 in 243 from an old mates estate. My mates fav hunting rifle and i really liked the idea of having it and getting my lad hunting with it eventually, hes 8 years old currently.

Ive played with downloading both 260 rem 7mm08 and 223 using IMR 4198 a while ago, kinda in early prep for loads for the kids. So thought, why dont i try to replicate 6x45 velocities from the 243 using the same powder.

So i sifted through the cupboard and found a box of 80gr Speer SP's that came with a bunch of bits with the 243.

I double checked my source of load data for these light loads using this powder. (Remington used IMR 4198 for their factory reduced recoil youth loads) it gives way better accuracy than the old 60% of max 2206H load that adi talk about - and yep it sure does, ive tested it.

So i loaded up a handful of test loads with 30gr of 4198 behind the 80gr Speers seated to look about right.

I got out to the range late this arvo to quickly test them at 100 yards.

They seem to shoot pretty well. I didnt chrony them, but QL tells me to expect around 2700 fps. Perfect for what i want.

I was running a DPT with 5 x 7mm baffles on it (the only smaller cal baffles i have are 22 cal)

The recoil was very light, i reckon the young fella should be able to handle it.

Im hoping to get him onto his first goat and eventually deer with it this year.

A bit of research returned these pics of the same 80gr Speer SP recovered from a deer shot at 200 yards from a 6x45 at similar muzzle velocity.

I reckon it should all work well.

My lad gets a turn to shoot it on Sunday.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...1fcabcfaf5.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...015142c258.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...4212db3c7d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...fb255c524a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...e089858a6b.jpg

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sounds like you have it sorted...80 grns of Mr Speers finest at 2700fps is not to be sniffed at...any deer ,goat or pig is going to be in big trouble. LOVE speer projectiles,they are soft and breakup like good projectiles should do.
consider a small bipod to make the handling easier for small fella...or teach him to use backpack PROPERLY....off side hand on forestock across,infront of bag,bag holding weight of rifle,and maybe something like old jersey under the butt ...set him up to succeed and it will pay dividends in his confidence.... and some plastic milk bottles at 50 yards will boost the confidence and introduce the fun factor....picking up mess afterwards good training too.

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

sounds like you have it sorted...80 grns of Mr Speers finest at 2700fps is not to be sniffed at...any deer ,goat or pig is going to be in big trouble. LOVE speer projectiles,they are soft and breakup like good projectiles should do.
consider a small bipod to make the handling easier for small fella...or teach him to use backpack PROPERLY....off side hand on forestock across,infront of bag,bag holding weight of rifle,and maybe something like old jersey under the butt ...set him up to succeed and it will pay dividends in his confidence.... and some plastic milk bottles at 50 yards will boost the confidence and introduce the fun factor....picking up mess afterwards good training too.

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Yeah im thinking it's all going to work well for him, he's done a little bit of shooting over the last couple of years, started on a youth 22lr, then 17 hmr and lighter loads in my 223 out to 200 yards. He's shot some rabbits with the 17 hmr laying prone using a bipod.

I will have him prone with a bipod and rear rest with the 243 as well, he's not big enough to hold it up properly as yet unsupported.

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Originally Posted by GWH

Yeah im thinking it's all going to work well for him, he's done a little bit of shooting over the last couple of years, started on a youth 22lr, then 17 hmr and lighter loads in my 223 out to 200 yards. He's shot some rabbits with the 17 hmr laying prone using a bipod.

I will have him prone with a bipod and rear rest with the 243 as well, he's not big enough to hold it up properly as yet unsupported.

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Dare I say it but that load would work just as well for the elder members of the household. My shooting is almost entirely at targets these days so more and more of my rifles have light loads for that purpose. The hunting ones still have full power loads (read book max or a little less) as their base zero as well but the old soldiers all have light loads.
Regards Grandpamac.

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Originally Posted by grandpamac

Dare I say it but that load would work just as well for the elder members of the household. My shooting is almost entirely at targets these days so more and more of my rifles have light loads for that purpose. The hunting ones still have full power loads (read book max or a little less) as their base zero as well but the old soldiers all have light loads.
Regards Grandpamac.

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Yes very true, my Dad is 80 this year and has buggered shoulders from a lifetime of abuse, he runs full power 87gr loads in his M7 243 but i bet he'd like shooting these light loads better :thumbsup:

For slightly higher powered loads, I have found in my 243 (23.5" barrel):
37 grains of AR2209 gives me 2760fps with the 90gr ELD-X
39 grains of AR2209 gives me 2880fps with 90-100gr bullets
40 grains of AR2209 gives me 2980fps with 85-100gr bullets

Interesting thread.

My boys (7&9) are keen to shoot but my Ruger Ranch 223 with a 16” barrel is too noisy / jumpy for them, making them flinch.
Yes a suppressor would help and is on my list to purchase.

Researching reduced loads, I came up with 8.0 grains of Alliant Blue Dot behind a 55gn Rusa CMJ projectile which gives me 1800 fps. I have large amounts of these components on hand from other endeavours.
It’s quiet, accurate and using some hold over, hits on 6” steel plates out at 200 metres are reasonably easy.

Cheap shooting for an afternoon of fun.
About $0.25 cents a shot, so cheaper than some 22lr ammo currently.
Cases are cold to touch when ejected and the barrel hardly gets warm, even when shooting heaps of shots.

For those that are interested in reduced loads, Google “seafire 223 load”.
An interesting rabbit hole for a rainy day.


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Originally Posted by Simon

Interesting thread.

My boys (7&9) are keen to shoot but my Ruger Ranch 223 with a 16” barrel is too noisy / jumpy for them, making them flinch.
Yes a suppressor would help and is on my list to purchase.

Researching reduced loads, I came up with 8.0 grains of Alliant Blue Dot behind a 55gn Rusa CMJ projectile which gives me 1800 fps. I have large amounts of these components on hand from other endeavours.
It’s quiet, accurate and using some hold over, hits on 6” steel plates out at 200 metres are reasonably easy.

Cheap shooting for an afternoon of fun.
About $0.25 cents a shot, so cheaper than some 22lr ammo currently.
Cases are cold to touch when ejected and the barrel hardly gets warm, even when shooting heaps of shots.

For those that are interested in reduced loads, Google “seafire 223 load”.
An interesting rabbit hole for a rainy day.


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I originally got my reduced load data using imr 4198 from 'seafire' too ;-)

I use 14gr of 4198 in 223 behind a 55gr and it shoots tiny groups at 2200 fps, my lad has shot that at 200 yards.

I see seafire now also recommends re7 for these type of youth loads

Yes, seafire has some interesting write ups on reduced loads for many different rounds.
Interestingly, some use the loads for high volume shooting of rock chucks and similar pests, full velocity versions but due to the smaller powder charges, much less heat and wear and tear are produced.

I settled on 8 grains as it gave a useful velocity and the velocity consistency & accuracy was fantastic. I did play with even lower charges but the velocity became a bit erratic at the lowest charges.


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greetings All,
Light and specialty loads are a well of fascination and enjoyment that never runs dry. Add cast bullets (which I have yet to do) and the fun goes on forever.
GPM.

I loaded up some very reduced 308 loads this afternoon, a bit different from my usual mild loads using 30-30 projectiles.
151gr cast bullets with 14gr of Trailboss, does 1565fps in my longer barreled rifle, I don't know yet what speed from the shorty. The shorty need half a grain more at subsonic speeds.

This is really interesting, I was thinking about a 6x45 but after a bit of thought I was pondering downloading a 243 might be simpler than custom building something the kids will probably grow out of pretty quickly.
Is it normal to get good accuracy when downloading or have you just struck it lucky, I thought I had read that by downloading pressure and velocity were kind of random and accuracy opened up, but that also may have been when using case fillers etc.

Loaded some 107gn TMKs in my 6.5TCU 924 inch barrel) and was surprised that 2700fps was achievable (Labradar)
Attachment 209291
accuracy wasnt bad either considering 6mm jump to lands
Next time I might do 6x45 or .25TCU

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Originally Posted by rusl

This is really interesting, I was thinking about a 6x45 but after a bit of thought I was pondering downloading a 243 might be simpler than custom building something the kids will probably grow out of pretty quickly.
Is it normal to get good accuracy when downloading or have you just struck it lucky, I thought I had read that by downloading pressure and velocity were kind of random and accuracy opened up, but that also may have been when using case fillers etc.

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Every cartridge I've tested the IMR 4198 Reduced loads in I've been able to find superb accuracy, the 243 example above was one of the worst! (and most people would be pretty happy with a 3 shot group in the .3's right) You should see the group my bitsa M7 6.5CM shoots with 123 eldms and 30 gr of the 4198. My 223 also shoots tiny little groups with 14gr of it behind a 55gr SGK.

Whereas the powder that most people use and is normally recommended to use as low as 60% of the max charge (ADI AR2206H) often throws some pretty average groups, ive tested it in the same rifles, and the precision just isnt there. If you are going to do it, do yourself a favor and use IMR 4198. In any case from 243, 260, 6.5CM 7mm08, or 308 30gr seems to be the sweet spot, with a 120-130gr projectile.

What is the sound report like when you download, is it still normal 243 boom or a little quitter like a 223?

Looks like a good option for a dual use gun I could load some Downloaded varmint bullets for fun on the rabbits and magpies with the boys, but still have some full power loads in my pocket in case something serious is spotted.

Don't discount the hornady 58gr either for goats at reduced velocities in a 243.
I've even run them over a full cartridge of tailboss but can't remember what velocity I got.

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Originally Posted by rusl

What is the sound report like when you download, is it still normal 243 boom or a little quitter like a 223?

Looks like a good option for a dual use gun I could load some Downloaded varmint bullets for fun on the rabbits and magpies with the boys, but still have some full power loads in my pocket in case something serious is spotted.

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Downloaded with IMR 4198 its much less noise, other powders not so much.

@GWH Are you sure you aren't looking for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist?. I have set up a .243 for my kids. Both are small for their age and weigh a whopping 35-40kg. I fitted a short stock and 6" bipod +suppressor. They have to shoot prone as can't hold the gun up either. They are both happy to shoot it with full power loads and have successfully taken a deer each. I understand your thinking with the low power loads but you could argue that full power loads allow for a bit more error in bullet placement from a young shooter?

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Simples. Less powder equals:
less bang
Less recoil

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Originally Posted by hunter Al.7mm08

@GWH Are you sure you aren't looking for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist?. I have set up a .243 for my kids. Both are small for their age and weigh a whopping 35-40kg. I fitted a short stock and 6" bipod +suppressor. They have to shoot prone as can't hold the gun up either. They are both happy to shoot it with full power loads and have successfully taken a deer each. I understand your thinking with the low power loads but you could argue that full power loads allow for a bit more error in bullet placement from a young shooter?

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Yeah I get ya.

Rifle fit certainly has a lot to do with it, my lad didn't much like shooting the reduced loads in the 243 (stock was too long), I did a similar reduced load for a model 7 6.5CM with 123gr eldms, that rifle has a shorter lop, and he enjoys shooting that, and can hit a 3 inch bull at 400 yards with it.

So, yep you may we'll be right.