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Thread: Hangfires with reduced loads

  1. #1
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    Hangfires with reduced loads

    Hi all,
    Relatively new to the forums but have already benefitted greatly from the store of knowledge here!

    Last weekend I did some load development at the range (thanks again @gadgetman) and had some interesting results. The aim was to find a lighter bullet/lower velocity load to give my partner's son a pleasant introduction to centrefire rifle shooting. Thanks to @257weatherby I had some different projectiles to play with.

    I had researched the idea thoroughly and had decided to use AR2206H due to the ability to load to 60% of max load (look up reduced loads with H4895/AR2206H). Even if it didn't work well at lower levels it seems a good choice in my 6.5 Creedmoor for 90 to 100 grain class bullets at normal book levels.

    I loaded some rounds starting at 26 grains and going up by a grain at a time to 34 grains. Overall length with 100gr Eld was 2.650 to ensure projectile was sufficiently held by the neck meaning they had a sizable jump to the lands.

    26 grains showed good initial grouping and were very mellow to shoot. The fun started at 27 onwards - at least 1 of 3 in each progression did the dreaded click-boom. And then at 34 grains no more hangfires. Tried 3 more groups at 32.5, 33.5 and 34.5 as groups seemed to improve between 32 and 33. 34 grouped the same as 33 around 30mm.

    After doing some more reading around the issue I think the factors contributing are likely to be:
    Low neck tension (Lee collet die)
    Light projectile for calibre
    Long jump to lands
    Relatively low case fill (though over half full)

    Other relevant info:
    Lapua once-fired cases
    CCI 450 primer
    Howa1500 rifle

    Has anybody else experienced anything similar? Any thoughts on where to go from here? My thought is to go back to the book minimum and start developing from there. And go buy a 223 😀

  2. #2
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    Reducing loads can be problematic for a few reasons
    If the powder dose not fill the case and there is to much room in the case when the cartridge is lying flat in the rifle the powder is not up against the primer
    Causing delayed ignition can also Cause flash over where the powder ignite’s from both the back and the front of the powder and burns both ways this can be very dangerous and it Severe cases can blow the gun up

    I think some people Some full the case with something other than powder (cream of weat)
    But ideally you want to find a powder that fulls the case as best possible while still producing reduced velocity
    This information is all researched but ive never bothered loading reduced loads myself

    A 100gn load full noise in a 6.5cm would be pretty nice to shoot anyway without needing to reduce the change
    Even better supressed if you’re gun is supressed just load up some 100gn and see what he thinks of those

    If that’s still to much it might be a good excuse to buy him/yourself a 223 or similar
    Cordite likes this.

  3. #3
    Member stug's Avatar
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    You could try switching to Trailboss, that will fill the case and stop the hangfire. Velocity will be low as well.

  4. #4
    Member Micky Duck's Avatar
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    I got reduced loads made up for .270win years ago and they didnt go click boom they went ba-boom UNLESS we did the old black powder trick and pointed muzzle skyward then lowered down and fired...duplicated same loads myself years later without issues... trail boss is your friend for reduced loads.gunworks have it and probably still do wee sample pottles (if you ask nicely) that will do 40ish loads. hangfires etc will create a flinch etc quick smart and ruins confidence.magnum primer MIGHT fix it but as youve worked past the bad range and are getting up to better fill ratio you should be past having issues. there are great varmint type projectiles for the 6.5 cal so go light and fastish and issue wont have a chance to be there.

  5. #5
    Member gadgetman's Avatar
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    One round did not ignite the powder. On pulling the projectile the powder was still there but the tail of the projectile was sooty black.

    I'd load them up to a full noise round using that lighter projectile. If TR can use her 7mmRM I don't think your lad will have any issues.
    There are only three types of people in this world. Those that can count, and those that can't!

  6. #6
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    Trail boss is great stuff Velocity low probably to low for what you’re after like subsonic low
    But it is really really good stuff

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    Cheers for the advice. I had considered Trail Boss, but figured it was going to give much lower velocities rather than just a less booty load.

    The Howa is suppressed which makes it really nice to shoot. It isn't too bad at all.

    It may well be that the lad just doesn't care about the recoil etc. I just wanted to see if I could achieve something a bit different. And go shoot my new rifle of course!

    I've got some 95 gr V-MAX to try already and I'll probably get some of the 90gr Speer TNT to try as well. If I can get those to shoot as well as the 140gr ELD-Ms do I'll be well impressed.

  8. #8
    Member jim160's Avatar
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    if you want to use light loads with 2208, maybe use magnum primers and use dacron to keep the powder down at the base of the case.

    But for lighter loads, as others have said, trail boss is the best and probably the safest option

  9. #9
    Member Micky Duck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelisreal View Post
    Cheers for the advice. I had considered Trail Boss, but figured it was going to give much lower velocities rather than just a less booty load.

    The Howa is suppressed which makes it really nice to shoot. It isn't too bad at all.

    It may well be that the lad just doesn't care about the recoil etc. I just wanted to see if I could achieve something a bit different. And go shoot my new rifle of course!

    I've got some 95 gr V-MAX to try already and I'll probably get some of the 90gr Speer TNT to try as well. If I can get those to shoot as well as the 140gr ELD-Ms do I'll be well impressed.
    mate is having awesome results with them on wallabies and has knocked over a couple of fallow and reds with them too. varmit pills not super fast have been used like this for ever.

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    Ooops double post...

  11. #11
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    I'm already using magnum primers (CCI 450) which work an absolute treat with the 140gr/AR2209 load.

  12. #12
    GWH
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    I did a whole bunch of research on yankie websites earlier in the year to suss out some decent reduced loads for both my 260 rem and 7mm08, for mrs and kids etc.

    The general consensus was that the H4895 doesnt work that well (loading down to a min of 60% of the max load for any cartridge that has H4895 load data).

    And then i spoke with a chap in the US, that got the load data for the factory remington reduced recoil loads, and they used 30gr of IMR4198 behind a 120gr bullet. I did some initial testing in both 260 and 7mm08 at around the 30-32 gr mark, and was getting about 2200-2400 fps velocity in both cartridges.

    I also tested the H4895 reduced loads in each rifle, and the IMR4198 reduced loads were way more consistant with far better grouping. I had no such issues with hangfires.

    The 6.5CM is not too disimilar to a 260 rem really, im picking you may be able to use the IMR4198 in that too, but it'd pay to do some more homework first.
    Micky Duck, Steelisreal and rewa like this.

  13. #13
    Member Tommy's Avatar
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    Thought about IMR 4759?
    Identify your target beyond all doubt

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    Yep I had considered the IMR SR4759 as it kept popping up as a good option in reduced loads for medium capacity cases. In the end I went with the 2206 as it would happily work for normal full power loads with varmint weight bullets. I like the idea of a 90 grain projectile at 3200+ FPS for zapping wallabies and bunnies ��

    All the research did indicate that a faster powder like 4198 (AR2207) would likely work well, bit there wasn't a lot of data around for it. Thanks for the info @GWH, I will look in to it some more.
    GWH likes this.

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    The other factor in all of this was that I've had a fairly erratic income over the last few months so I've not been able to spend much on fun stuff. Hence when I decided to but powder it had to be good for more than one purpose.

    Happily I've now got a new job that should allow me to delve deeper in to trying out different things on the reloading bench. And buy a reloading bench ��
    Frogfeatures likes this.

 

 

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