Head Space Struggles with the 6.5x55.

Greeting All,
The 6.5x55 has been a long time favourite of mine and over time two have found their way into my gun cupboard. For a long time I neck sized most cases for my rifles but more recently I have fallen under the spell of the Hornady head space comparator kit and the Redding competition shell holder sets. All went swimmingly until I got to the 6.5x55 rifles.
Starting with the T3 a fired case and the plus 0.010" shell holder and Redding dies sized cases chambered with ease. That wasn't supposed to happen. Measurements with the comparator showed that the shoulder had been set back 0.05mm (0.002") about right. The chamber on my M38 is about 0.1mm longer than my T3 so for them the shoulder would be set back 0.15mm (0.006") and this was with the +0.010" shell holder.
I knew that my old Lyman dies sized the cases even more so out they came for some measuring. Turns out they set the shoulder back 0.2mm further than the Redding.
But wait, there is more. The old Lyman dies and a RCBS neck dies size the neck of my Lapua and Norma brass nicely but with Winchester brass barely touches the neck so a projectile drops right through. With the Redding die the Winchester brass is fine but the necks of the others are overworked.
Bother.
So how did this shambles come to be. Well it appears that when SAAMI set the standard dimensions for the 6.5x55 and many other non US cartridges they failed to follow the overseas standards. There is an arrogance in the US about anything not invented in the US being any good. Unfired Lapua cases in the T3 chamber are a perfect fit so the problem is not there.
So now I must work around the problem created in the US. The T3 is a hunting rifle so the oversizing of the necks can be tolerated for the limited number of rounds likely to be fired so the Redding die with the +0.010" shell holder will be used. For the M38 the Lyman FL die will be set and locked to give the right headspace. The RCBS neck die would be an option for light loads as well.
All this filled in some rainy days so all is not lost.
Regards Grandpamac.

Hearing ya @grandpamac, i have had exactly the same issues over the past 15 or so years with Lapua brass and redding dies, i to went to the .010 shell holder 4-5 years ago and it has made an improvement.

projectile falls through the neck.....has that used an expander ball??? if so make it skinnier,too easy by placing in drill and holding fine sandpaper to the expandy ball thing.
sounds like prime candidate for only partial length resize..so size of shell holder becomes irrelevant
but you know what your doing old chap...I have complete faith you will find a simple work around.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

projectile falls through the neck.....has that used an expander ball??? if so make it skinnier,too easy by placing in drill and holding fine sandpaper to the expandy ball thing.
sounds like prime candidate for only partial length resize..so size of shell holder becomes irrelevant
but you know what your doing old chap...I have complete faith you will find a simple work around.

---

Greetings Micky,
The Winchester necks are much thinner so only the Redding die sizes them enough to even touch the expander ball. It is just a matter as selecting the die that is the most appropriate. I tried to neck size my .30-40 Krag brass with a .308 Win neck die but it did not size enough and needed to partial size with the Krag FL size die. It is all good fun finding the solutions. The more you learn about handloading the more complicated it seems to become. Some cartridges are easy but others not so much.
Regards Grandpamac.

I reload for 3x x55s never had problems like that with my shitty lee dies or my hornady ones.

Sounds like a bushing neck die with a careful selection of bushings might help there. As soon as I saw the thread title I thought to myself, the yanks and their non-standard SAAMI standards again haha.

I tried and tried to get the competition shell holder to fix some of my older lapua swede cases. I ended up having a mate shave off a thou from the shell holder just to get it to bump the shoulder it to saami. This was after about 12 cycles and amp annealed every firing. Just couldnt get the case in far enough in any of my dies (forster, hornady or redding). Glad to hear its not just me!
But as for the necks, i was already using a type s collet die to play around with neck turning.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blip

I reload for 3x x55s never had problems like that with my shitty lee dies or my hornady ones.

---

I really believe people are over thinking this whole problem. When Wellington Sporting Arms first brought these rifles into NZ only berdan primed ammo was available and we sized down 30/06 and 270 cases which worked well in spite of an undersized head. My old RCBS dies turned out ammo which could be fired in several rifles interchangeably with out a problem. In Military rifles headspace is often loose and not a problem.Annealing cases was not common practice and we just fired them till the neck split.

Greetings to you all,
I fully accept that for many handloading is a reasonable cheap and convenient way to feed their hunting rifles and there is nothing wrong in that. Loading US cartridges with US dies is reasonably trouble free and most of my rifles have chambers that differ little from the cases produced by Full Length sizing with the die hard down on the shell holder. For non US cartridges things are different for the reasons stated in my earlier post. There are three main problems that can arise in firing a handload in a chamber with excessive head space.
1. The round fails to fire or shows erratic ignition and poor accuracy due to a soft firing pin strike. The firing pin has to move the cartridge to the front of the chamber which take up some of the energy.
2. An unfired round can not be extracted as the extractor has not popped over the rim. More prevalent in push feed actions.
3. The case head separates from the case body after two or three firings leaving the front of the case stuck in the chamber. Common with Lee Enfields.
I have seen all of these things happen over the years and it never improves your day if out hunting.

I fully admit to being somewhat OCD when it comes to handloading, partly due to working with figures initially as a draughtsman and later manager and planner. Now retired I have the time to dig into the vast rabbit warren that is handloading so each to their own.
Regards Grandpamac.

I have experienced that problem with Winchester 6.5x55 brass too. I use Simplex dies which size the Norma brass fine and projectiles are held firm by the neck unlike the Winchester stuff.
As I had a bit of the Winchester brass l didn’t want to chuck it so I had a think about and come up with this solution.
First I size the brass as normal and you can feel no resistance in the neck. I then take the decamping rod out of my 243 dies, screw them into the press and then carefully push the 6.5 x55 shell into the 243 die till it contacts the neck part inside the die . I then just give it about a mill of a crimp.
I have loaded a fair few this way and works well, when the projectile is seated it opens the neck up for a good secure fit. Accuracy is as good as ammo loaded with the Norma brass.

Yes there are some here looking to solve a problem that doesn't exist. All brass and chambers have sizing variations so the solution is to deal with what you have each time in isolation.
The Lee collet die (crimping the neck onto a mandrel) will deal with most variances in neck wall thickness, but can leave a bit to be desired on thin necks and large chambers in that in will leave ridges as it tries to reduce the diameter. This can be overcome to some extent by first reducing the neck in a Full length sizing die and then using the collet to true it up and make the inside uniform.
Regarding the headspace....this is also variable in all chambers, and the die needs to be adjusted to suit. It is best as @T.FOYE has done....reduce the die length to allow the longer chamber types to be re-sized, and then let the die "float" in the thread for all the different brass. Mark your die for each chamber and re-size maybe 1/4 turn up for the first one then measure the brass and fit in the chamber and then reduce the length until it reaches the desired length. Back off for the next, and measure again and re-size until the correct measurement and fit are achieved. Annealed brass will usually be pretty consistent with the setting of the die being near the same each time, but un-annealed brass will be quite inconsistent in the setting depth.

F'wah! Im gunna pretend you didnt say that haha! The struggle is real i tells ya

To put it in money terms, my heavily used set of 100x lapua cases got to the point they wouldn't chamber despite full length sizing. Costs more than $200 to buy more so i was happy when the shaved shell holder gave me back my brass that would now chamber. Dunno for how long though. Necks are getting thin