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Thread: High Pressure signs?

  1. #1
    Member janleroux's Avatar
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    High Pressure signs?

    I will really appreciate some advice and feedback:

    Last week I did my first ever reloads. I prepared two load development sets for my 6.5 CM (Howa with a 24” barrel) - one with 140gr ELD-M and the other with 143 ELD-X. Both using once fired Hornady brass, Federal Match LR primers and H4350.

    I loaded three rounds for each load starting at 37.5gr and working up in 0.5gr increments up to 41gr. So 24 rounds in total for the 140 ELD-M and 24 rounds for 143 ELD-X.

    On Saturday I took half the day and slowly worked through the two sets shooting over the Crony and checking the groupings at 100y.

    140 ELD-M
    I am a bit disappointed. Found a couple of speed nodes and 6 out of 8 groups was sub moa (best being 0.18). Best average velocity was 2644 at 41gr.


    143 ELD-X
    Did better much than the ELD-M’s. Again found a couple of speed nodes with three groups giving an ES of 9,2 and 7 respectively. All sub moa with the best being 0.3. The last one (the one with an ES of 7, 0.7moa being at 41gr) also gave the best average velocity of 2622.


    At no point did I feel a heavy bolt lift. The primers looks the same as the primers in the factory ammo and no cratering. At 40 and 41gr I just, just start to make out a very light ejector mark on some casings.

    I really want to try and get to 2700fps, so my thinking is to work up another batch of loads starting at 41.2gr and increment 0.2gr increments up to 42gr (which is 0.5gr over Hornady book max).

    Can I ask you guys with more experience doing load development, do you see anything in my uploaded photos that I am missing in terms of danger signs?

    How about my strategy with the next step to work in 0.2gr up to 42gr?

    Thanks for your feedback and advice!


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  2. #2
    Bah, humbug ! Frogfeatures's Avatar
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    Nope, those primers look OK
    Can’t see the ejector marks ?
    Going up in 0.2 should be fine, TBH the book maxs have come down over the years, probably
    due to the threat of litigation.
    He nui to ngaromanga, he iti to putanga.

    You depart with mighty boasts, but you come back having done little.
    Sounds like a typical hunting trip !

  3. #3
    Member janleroux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frogfeatures View Post
    Nope, those primers look OK
    Can’t see the ejector marks ?
    Going up in 0.2 should be fine, TBH the book maxs have come down over the years, probably
    due to the threat of litigation.
    Thanks, I was hoping that I was still on the right track.



    Look at the “a” in the “Hornady” for the marking. Had to use a magnifying glass to see it.


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  4. #4
    DLW
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frogfeatures View Post
    Nope, those primers look OK
    Can’t see the ejector marks ?
    Going up in 0.2 should be fine, TBH the book maxs have come down over the years, probably
    due to the threat of litigation.
    I recon those primers still look fine too

  5. #5
    Member janleroux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLW View Post
    I recon those primers still look fine too
    Thanks @DLW


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  6. #6
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    I to would agree with others and say they look fine.

    When you are getting hotter with your loads, I would suspect you will know and figure it out. Increase in recoil/ plus bolt lift and extraction will feel different.

    What powder are you using in the 6.5creed?

  7. #7
    Member 10-Ring's Avatar
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    Those cases show a mild load. Not even the slightest sign of excessive pressure. You've room for movement there. Go up in .3 grs and you should easily reach 2,700 fps safely.

    Regarding SD. It's not that critical unless you're shooting at extreme range; accuracy is more important.

    My Tikka 24" 6.5 CM has a long throat and magazine and to get 2,600 fps I have to load around 42.6 gr of H4320 from memory. I have settled on 44.3 grs for 2,750 fps with Lapua SP cases and 143 ELD-X. Note, that this load would be too hot in some rifles but is just warm in mine. I can easily get 2,800 fps with RE16 with about the same pressure as the H4320 at 2,750 fps.

    BTW: H4320 is AR2209, exactly the same powder. ADI supply Hodgdon with AR2209 and they repack it under their name. I've used both at different times and had identical velocities. AR2209 is a little less expensive to buy and you also get 500gms vs 1lb for the Hodgdon.
    "The 257 Roberts, some people like to call it the “.257 Bob.” I think these people should be hung in trees where crows can peck at them." - David Petzal

  8. #8
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    looks fine, are you loading to factory OAL or seating deaper or prouder ?

  9. #9
    Member janleroux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matagouri View Post
    I to would agree with others and say they look fine.

    When you are getting hotter with your loads, I would suspect you will know and figure it out. Increase in recoil/ plus bolt lift and extraction will feel different.

    What powder are you using in the 6.5creed?
    Thanks. I am using Hodgdon H4350.


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  10. #10
    Member janleroux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10-Ring View Post
    Those cases show a mild load. Not even the slightest sign of excessive pressure. You've room for movement there. Go up in .3 grs and you should easily reach 2,700 fps safely.

    Regarding SD. It's not that critical unless you're shooting at extreme range; accuracy is more important.

    My Tikka 24" 6.5 CM has a long throat and magazine and to get 2,600 fps I have to load around 42.6 gr of H4320 from memory. I have settled on 44.3 grs for 2,750 fps with Lapua SP cases and 143 ELD-X. Note, that this load would be too hot in some rifles but is just warm in mine. I can easily get 2,800 fps with RE16 with about the same pressure as the H4320 at 2,750 fps.

    BTW: H4320 is AR2209, exactly the same powder. ADI supply Hodgdon with AR2209 and they repack it under their name. I've used both at different times and had identical velocities. AR2209 is a little less expensive to buy and you also get 500gms vs 1lb for the Hodgdon.
    Thanks @10-Ring. I want to get more into long range shooting as well, so I looking for as consistent velocity but with accuracy. This is why I am not trying to get the highest possible velocity out of it, just a constant 2700’ish.

    Thanks for the info about RE16. I have decided to start with H4350 because I am doing my load development in winter and it is supposed to be quite temp insensitive. Also another reason why I not keen to run on maximums at this stage.


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  11. #11
    Member janleroux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonetropo View Post
    looks fine, are you loading to factory OAL or seating deaper or prouder ?
    For now just sticking to the factory OAL. I will play around with the OAL once I have the speed under control. Hopefully by playing with the jump off the lands I will be able to get a sufficient speed as well as less than 0.5 moa grouping - that will be happy days if I can achieve that.


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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10-Ring View Post
    Those cases show a mild load. Not even the slightest sign of excessive pressure. You've room for movement there. Go up in .3 grs and you should easily reach 2,700 fps safely.

    Regarding SD. It's not that critical unless you're shooting at extreme range; accuracy is more important.

    My Tikka 24" 6.5 CM has a long throat and magazine and to get 2,600 fps I have to load around 42.6 gr of H4320 from memory. I have settled on 44.3 grs for 2,750 fps with Lapua SP cases and 143 ELD-X. Note, that this load would be too hot in some rifles but is just warm in mine. I can easily get 2,800 fps with RE16 with about the same pressure as the H4320 at 2,750 fps.

    BTW: H4320 is AR2209, exactly the same powder. ADI supply Hodgdon with AR2209 and they repack it under their name. I've used both at different times and had identical velocities. AR2209 is a little less expensive to buy and you also get 500gms vs 1lb for the Hodgdon.
    Do you mean H4350? According to ADI website this is the equivalent of AR2209. It appears H4320 doesn’t exist, though there is IMR4320, which ADI reckon is close to AR2208.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cigar View Post
    Do you mean H4350? According to ADI website this is the equivalent of AR2209. It appears H4320 doesn’t exist, though there is IMR4320, which ADI reckon is close to AR2208.
    He said Hodgdon 4350 at first. Not a powder I'd expect to hear mentioned in connection with overpressure, unless you only half filled the case and had some detonation kind of thing going on. Some recommend magnum primers for slow powders, but go by the book. H4350 "likes" heavier projectiles btw.

  14. #14
    Member janleroux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cigar View Post
    Do you mean H4350? According to ADI website this is the equivalent of AR2209. It appears H4320 doesn’t exist, though there is IMR4320, which ADI reckon is close to AR2208.
    Apologies - finger trouble. Yes, it is H4350.


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  15. #15
    Member janleroux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordite View Post
    He said Hodgdon 4350 at first. Not a powder I'd expect to hear mentioned in connection with overpressure, unless you only half filled the case and had some detonation kind of thing going on. Some recommend magnum primers for slow powders, but go by the book. H4350 "likes" heavier projectiles btw.
    Hi @Cordite, that is interesting comment you made that I did not know - so are you saying that you could run into over pressure if you under load as well? Is it because there is not sufficient pressure to move the projectile out of the barrel and you have pressure peaking somewhere during the process?


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