Thread: How do I Reduce Extreme spread in my .30-06

Originally Posted by goatcommander

Thanks guys
I am thinking it’s the brass an possibly the primers. My .270 and .303 both had ES of no more that 30fps on the same day. That was with Remington brass in the .270 and hxp brass in .303 both with federal 210 primers.
I have some nickel plated Winchester brass once fired through my rifle, I’ll use federal 210 primers.
Thanks for the advice, all my shooting is less than 250m I wouldn’t try shoot past that. So good to know that ES isn’t too much to worry about. The flyers could be from me- I understand I’m probably the biggest variable here. I’ll still do a couple tests to get ES down as will be good practice for making more precise reloads moving forward

an "ES" from 3 shots is more or less meaningless as a measurement, and it doesn't have any significance whatsoever for hit probability at your use case.



as far as fliers, how many shots are you looking at to determine you have "fliers"? If you have more than one group without sight adjustments being made between shooting them, if you overlay the impacts what does it look like?

Check your beam balance wich another scale or at least check weights.

Hey Gimp . I’m getting a flyer like this. This first shot was on a cold barrel but seems a little too high even for that?
Then sometimes a round will go an inch to the left or righ, that could be anything tho I was wondering if the ES may have something to do with it. I havn’t done too much investigation- to be honest , when at the range I try to keep the shots to a minimum to save on ammo, usually 3 or 4 shots at 100m and 1 or 2 shots a 200m then off hunting.
I had the opportunity to use a friends Garmin, so that’s what got me thinking/ over thinking

You might try a ladder test because your two groups are at the very low and very high ends of the charge range. I have ggod groups around 2750-2780fps with 155grain from my 30-06 so I surmise you could do a ladder in 0.3grain steps from say 55.0 up 55.3, 55.6 - to 58.0 and see if you spot any nodes. Youll need to record each shot by number ,exact poi and charge ,on a duplicate target beside you. Alll on same sight setting and at minute or so intervals to avoid barrel heating up. Take your time and if you pull or let off a poor shot , record it as such on your cipy target. If youre shooting at 100m thrn draw a grid of 30mm squares on both your target and your copy. 30mm id near 1 moa at 100m
Those gridlinrs will assist you in id poi of each shot by number and charge and mv. Dont rush it. Good luck.

Originally Posted by goatcommander

Attachment 281862

Hey Gimp . I’m getting a flyer like this. This first shot was on a cold barrel but seems a little too high even for that?
Then sometimes a round will go an inch to the left or righ, that could be anything tho I was wondering if the ES may have something to do with it. I havn’t done too much investigation- to be honest , when at the range I try to keep the shots to a minimum to save on ammo, usually 3 or 4 shots at 100m and 1 or 2 shots a 200m then off hunting.
I had the opportunity to use a friends Garmin, so that’s what got me thinking/ over thinking

That's very poor precision, but does it simply form a bigger group if overlaid with more shots from different occasions?


I.e. is it really an outlier, or just the way the cards happened to fall on those 4 shots for a rifle/ammunition combination with poor precision?

It certainly looks like an outlier but impossible to say without more data.

That photo answers my question nicely. If you get that cold bore....or clean bore .... But not afterwards,no big issue. Assuming cold bore is only happening when clean,but otherwise is in cluster. An inch left or right is gnat farting between you and target. Don't sweat it. And the ultimate answer to your original question. How do you sort speed differences....throw the fooking chronograph away. Sight rifle in,go shoot stuff and be happy. If your not shooting out into next postal code so aren't range finding and doing twiddle n fiddle thing..sight in 2-3" high at hundy and go hunting. Out to 250-300 point and shoot. Look at ballistic tablets not difficult to shoot to 300 with what you have got,and do it well....that first clean bore shot excluded.

Also check head stamps on Hornady brass as a year or two back there was at least three different head stamps doing the rounds...all different capacities...

Originally Posted by gimp

That's very poor precision, but does it simply form a bigger group if overlaid with more shots from different occasions?


I.e. is it really an outlier, or just the way the cards happened to fall on those 4 shots for a rifle/ammunition combination with poor precision?

It certainly looks like an outlier but impossible to say without more data.

Yeah this. Post up all of your groups, see what the overall pattern looks like.

Have you checked your actiob screws torques?

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

That photo answers my question nicely. If you get that cold bore....or clean bore .... But not afterwards,no big issue. Assuming cold bore is only happening when clean,but otherwise is in cluster. An inch left or right is gnat farting between you and target. Don't sweat it. And the ultimate answer to your original question. How do you sort speed differences....throw the fooking chronograph away. Sight rifle in,go shoot stuff and be happy. If your not shooting out into next postal code so aren't range finding and doing twiddle n fiddle thing..sight in 2-3" high at hundy and go hunting. Out to 250-300 point and shoot. Look at ballistic tablets not difficult to shoot to 300 with what you have got,and do it well....that first clean bore shot excluded.

If I had a rifle that shot that far away for a cold bore or clean barrel it would be gone by now.
If you are 2 1/2" higher at 100 when the others are zeroed at 100 that's a miss at 300.
And it always has a flyer in every group that far from the center I would want to know why.

Sent from my CPH2531 using Tapatalk

This why I asked is it only from cold barrel/ clean barrel.... But even worst case scenario it does it EVERY time from cold....you can alloy for it...shit Sammie but doable.

Originally Posted by Woody

Have you checked your actiob screws torques?

Hey Woody my action screws are tight, I havn’t set them to a specific torque just did them up tight with the screwdriver

I should head back down the range and do some more testing/ shoot some more groups as Woody suggested then I’ll be able to supply some concrete facts that should make things a bit clearer so we can accurate asses the situation ay
I’m going for a hunt this weekend - (rifle is still minute of goat in the bush)and will aim to get to the range the following weekend

Have you haf the barrel and action completely clear of the stock at all? Sometimes what you see under there can be revealing. For example the mag box should be clear and when bolt is cloed it should not tluch the stock at all. Look for rub areas, are they even or is the action or barrel under any uneven side pressure etc. Os the barrel channel clear of the barrel ehen assembled?
I wouldnt worry about groups until you have completed a ladder og single shots step by step .3 grain at a time. But inspecting the bedding eyc is a required first step if ypu havent already done it.

Sorry if i missed it, but does the gun shoot.
1000yd shooters would be pissed with velocity spread like that but a 150gr 30cal isn't that sort of gun. Factory loads do this and most hunters still kill plenty of critters .
My reloads have never varied like that but oh my gosh did the ES of my loads dissappear when i started annealing.
Last 5 shots i chronographed from the 338/06 imp had 3 fps spread.