I am in a state of utter befuddlement

Being tired of "scooping and weighing" powder for every load, I did some Googling and decided that the "Lee De Luxe Perfect Powder Measure" was a suitable progression for my AR2208 and black powder loads. HOWEVER, when it arrived, like a good little lad I read the instructions and was bamboozled to find this at the very beginning of the blurb.

"Do not use black powder in this powder measure,as it can explode in bulk"

As the "bulk" in my case could never be more than the 500 grm / 1 kg tin / plastic containers in which it is ALREADY packed, delivered, sold to me and taken home, all without any apparent BOOMS, (which I'm sure I would have noticed) it is my intention, unless you good chaps advise otherwise to ignore the prohibition and carry on with my plan.

How say you?

Interesting...

Is black powder specifically susceptible to explosion from either compression or static electricity ? More so than smokeless ?

The Lee sometimes cuts or squashes kernels when using smokeless.

The boom risk comes from static electricity with the plastic hopper. Black powder is shipped in tins.

There is some stuff Lee makes that is really good and some that is crap.

The Lee Perfect Powder Measure trends towards crap. It's a great example of you get what you pay for. I bought one when I first started out on the cheap with a Lee Hand Press to see if I actually liked reloading ammo. To me it's OK if you don't have a lot of money, you are reloading in small amounts, maybe the odd box of plinking ammo here and there. Myself I found it very staticky with static electricity a constant problem and also that may or may not have contributed to constant inconsistent powder charges. I can't remember if it broke or I broke it to put it out of it's misery but it was not long before I moved on to a proper powder measure.

There is no way in heck I would be putting black powder in that thing.

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Originally Posted by ebf

Interesting...

Is black powder specifically susceptible to explosion from either compression or static electricity ? More so than smokeless ?

The Lee sometimes cuts or squashes kernels when using smokeless.

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As far as I know, it is both susceptible to compression and static electricity plus temperature variations and especially gets temperamental when it degrades over time. Smokeless is relatively stable, which is why it was quickly adopted around the world by armies and for civilian use.

2208 meters through those things like a complete and utter flea ridden mangy dog with distemper, rabies, and chronic diahorrea.

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Originally Posted by wanneroo

There is some stuff Lee makes that is really good and some that is crap.

The Lee Perfect Powder Measure trends towards crap. It's a great example of you get what you pay for. I bought one when I first started out on the cheap with a Lee Hand Press to see if I actually liked reloading ammo. To me it's OK if you don't have a lot of money, you are reloading in small amounts, maybe the odd box of plinking ammo here and there. Myself I found it very staticky with static electricity a constant problem and also that may or may not have contributed to constant inconsistent powder charges. I can't remember if it broke or I broke it to put it out of it's misery but it was not long before I moved on to a proper powder measure.

There is no way in heck I would be putting black powder in that thing.

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Ive found the opposite ive fot a lee perfect powder measure then thought i was progressing getting a lyman auto dispensor as an upgrade what a piece of shit that turned out to be gone back to the perfect measure as its way better im no benchrest reloader tho

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Originally Posted by ebf

Interesting...

Is black powder specifically susceptible to explosion from either compression or static electricity ? More so than smokeless ?

The Lee sometimes cuts or squashes kernels when using smokeless.

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Yes. BP is formulated to ignite from just a flint/steel spark. And burns much faster unconfined than smokeless powder does. Plastic means static electricity, but metal is no see through, and potential pipe bomb like confinement of any ignition...

I note Lee Hand Primer has a warning against using with Federal primers. These primers use a slightly different compound than others, making them likely to blow in the lee (plastic holder) tool. But they also ignite hotter than other primers.

Little useful warning things we must read to not go big blinding kaboomboom...eh? O-:>

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Originally Posted by northdude

Ive found the opposite ive fot a lee perfect powder measure then thought i was progressing getting a lyman auto dispensor as an upgrade what a piece of shit that turned out to be gone back to the perfect measure as its way better im no benchrest reloader tho

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Not familiar with the Lyman measure. I have a few Lyman tools I use and they work fine.

I have both RCBS and Hornady powder measures that I use now. The RCBS runs like a train. The Hornady I found the clear plastic powder container was totally worthless. I think I had some Power Pistol or Titegroup in it overnight and it discolored and melted. So I found some guy that makes custom Hornady clear powder containers out of the same glass they use in chemistry labs. Screws right into the Hornady LnL powder measure and also I have minimal issues with static cling.

Some people are happy with the Lee. Some powders it likes, some it does not. For me I found in the end I was wasting my time with it for the reasons I listed above. I also did what Lee recommended with using graphite spray to coat the inside of the measure to mitigate static buildup, I found that helped a little but not much.

One place I work we used to use one pound charges of black powder for kabooms. Having seen what that looks like and how loud it is, I would say even having a smaller quantity go off in the Lee Perfect Powder measure would not be a good day for someone. If Lee says not to do it and with the measure's issues known, why take the chance?

If it goes Kaboom, your warranty goes with it! Just thinking of your family paying for the funeral! My BP handling equip is all copper and I decant from the original packet into a much smaller container to scoop from. :cool:

BP is actually quite dangerous compared to modern powders.

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Originally Posted by Max Headroom

2208 meters through those things like a complete and utter flea ridden mangy dog with distemper, rabies, and chronic diahorrea.

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I haven't used my measure much, but have only ever used with 2208 and its been great, I trust it way more than digital scales.

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Originally Posted by Wingman

The boom risk comes from static electricity with the plastic hopper. Black powder is shipped in tins.

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Almost right...........My Goex ( just about exhausted) is in a tin but my replacement purchase "Holy Smoke" is in what looks like plastic. It sure ain't any form of metal.

Some "glazed" black powders like Goex have a protective coating on it that works as a static insulation, protects against moisture and helps with temperature stability.

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Originally Posted by Tommy

BP is actually quite dangerous compared to modern powders.

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Agreed, but compared to loading "smokeless" in Martini Henrys. Sniders, Damascus barrel shotguns and 3 band P1853's, it ain't so bad.

Hopefully some BP users may wander in

Lyman and RCBS both make powder measures suitable for use with BP. The difference is the cylinders are made of brass and the hoppers are aluminium. This reduces the risk of static electricity in the hopper and sparks from the cylinders. At normal atmospheric pressure BP burns 100 times faster than smokeless.

Could you not line the inside of the dispenser with tin foil? Just a thought, to stop it contacting with the plastic?

Brass dippers are the best thing for black powder. Fired cartridge cases are perfect - just trim them to the correct length to give you the desired charge, and solder on a 3" length of brass tubing (or another cartridge case) for a handle. Some of the larger rifle charges may require magnum cases. You only want to use the parallel part of the case to get consistent charges (no neck at all). Safe and static free, dip, scrape, and load.

Consistent smokeless charges require a good quality metal measure (Lyman, RCBS, Redding, etc) that has the ability to cut long grain rifle powder. The Lee measures are OK with fine grain or ball powders.

Holy smoke is better than Goex, in my opinion, am converting a few of my bigger calibres to Smokeless as less chance of damaging the rifling with corrosion. 500 BPEpress, 450/400, #2 Musket and also 38/50 because of fowling in small dia barrel.
45/70s I have using BP will take about 20 rounds through them without cleaning, pure lead projectiles.
577/450 I’ll look at smokeless because of the cartridge shape

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Originally Posted by Cigar

.. I trust it way more than digital scales.

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You clearly have never used a proper digital scale then

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Originally Posted by Sideshow

Could you not line the inside of the dispenser with tin foil? Just a thought, to stop it contacting with the plastic?

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A good question.

I had pondered that myself but as i was asking what some may consider pretty dumb questions about a Lee measure, I didn't want to "push the boundaries". As the remainder of the unit is brass, I look forward to some opinions.

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Originally Posted by Mauser308

I'm chucking you BP types in with the people who like things that run on coal...

Can't fathom why anyone would want to run anything through a measure to be fair, my experience is that it takes me just as long to dip as it does to chuck, check, fix the random over/under throw that seems to wander in every 2nd time or so... Stupid things. With a bit of practice you can dip within margin of error each time and quicker than a thrower I reckon.

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I've played with BP, but not in guns. It's always intrigued me that a lot of people consider it to be some safer compound, when the opposite is true. Black powder is an actual explosive, whereas modern propellants are not.

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Originally Posted by Tommy

I've played with BP, but not in guns. It's always intrigued me that a lot of people consider it to be some safer compound, when the opposite is true. Black powder is an actual explosive, whereas modern propellants are not.

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No clear line between explosive and propellant. BP cannot detonate, only burn. Unconfined, bp ignition is by far the most dangerous, cf. 100x burn speed. Confined BP, as in a pipe bomb, behaves like a high explosive, will knock concrete out of the floor it is blown up on. Smokeless even more dangerous confined as it develops more gas volume for its weight. Bottom line, respect both, but handle BP with care as IT can blow you up even if unconfined, provided in sufficient volume. Never mind blindness. But is smells much better when you fire it... (-:

I see you can get some thin copper sheets of amazon 0.1mm if you moulded them then glued them this might work.

how about an anti static strap on the thrower

Copper sheet idea good, but remember it has to be grounded, just having it as an internal liner will not do it.

Graphite additive to BP is a good conductor, will render it a lot safer + freer flowing. Could add some graphite powder to BP while it is its steel tin and agitate it in, but this may have been done already unless it is meal BP.

But really, what's the big fuss about just making a scoop from an empty cartridge. Foolproof.

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Originally Posted by Cordite

Copper sheet idea good, but remember it has to be grounded, just having it as an internal liner will not do it...............

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Who's making a "big fuss"? I'm just asking.

OK, Having worked for years with a wrist earth strap whilst servicing computers, that ain't too much of a problem...............just wire the copper liner via a cable onto the chassis of a nearby earthed device/ or plug it into a three pin wall socket..........

Duh...Um 3 holes, eeny, meeny, miny BOOM

On another tack, how have the Black powder users found Pyrodex ? I ask because Lee say Pyrodex is "Boom Proof" in the measure but when Googling for reviews of the measure, I did note some witterings about a Pyrodex "build up" in the chamber/ bore 'cos of the additives required to make it anti boom.

Whoa don’t plug it into the mains..........if it dose go boom the head lines are going to read......:o

Bad reloaded man terrorist attack on main truck line :wtfsmilie::ORLY: but you never know in these crazy crazy times :redbullsmiley:

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Originally Posted by 6x47

You clearly have never used a proper digital scale then

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They were "proper" scales (Hornady), but not "decent" scales (cheap $80 ones).

Yup, your budget is considerably light to be "decent", eg AnDs are over $1000

I have seen a lot of testing with black powder online to see if it can be setoff with a static spark, and no way will it go bang. There`s carbon in gunpowder, same stuff in high tension car plug leads and that spark wont set it off . How many times have you heard of someone getting a bang from a static spark. Needs a hot flint or percussion cap to set it of.