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Thread: Keyholing and stiff bolt lift

  1. #1
    Bah, humbug ! Frogfeatures's Avatar
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    Keyholing and stiff bolt lift

    My son has a new toy, 1900 Spanish Mauser rebarrelled by their military to 7.62-51 in 1950.
    Bore and crown look ok. So he bought some Greek surplus ammo for it and off we went to the range yesterday
    First 3 shots went ok, but the bolt got progressively harder to lift. Last 2 the projectiles went sideways and really
    Hard to eject. Ejection marks on cases. Too hot obviously
    My question is - Why did it get progressively worse ?
    Why didnít the first projectiles tumble ?
    Iíve loaded up some nice soft loads with Sierra 150 gr spitzers to try next range day.
    He nui to ngaromanga, he iti to putanga.

    You depart with mighty boasts, but you come back having done little.
    Sounds like a typical hunting trip !

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frogfeatures View Post
    My son has a new toy, 1900 Spanish Mauser rebarrelled by their military to 7.62-51 in 1950.
    Bore and crown look ok. So he bought some Greek surplus ammo for it and off we went to the range yesterday
    First 3 shots went ok, but the bolt got progressively harder to lift. Last 2 the projectiles went sideways and really
    Hard to eject. Ejection marks on cases. Too hot obviously
    My question is - Why did it get progressively worse ?
    Why didn’t the first projectiles tumble ?
    I’ve loaded up some nice soft loads with Sierra 150 gr spitzers to try next range day.
    Greetings @Frogfeatures,
    The problem was most likely the crap ammo. My experience with the Greek .303 ammo is that some is excellent and some absolute rubbish. Likely due to poor storage.
    Regards Grandpamac.
    Cordite likes this.

  3. #3
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    I am guessing a bit here so sorry this isn't a definitive answer.

    I have heard of the old spanish mausers needing to be babied a bit. The ammo sounds like it's at fault here though so your plan to try some hand loads is a good move. I'd bet with a starting load of 2206H or 2208 that you won't get the progessively heavier bolt vs 70yr old surplus that could be degrading, spiky, or generally too hot for the gun. I'd give the bore a good deep clean before you head back out, focussing on the chamber area in case there's a carbon ring building up. Make sure it's dry as a bone in there.

    What was the weight of the projectiles in the surplus and what's the twist of the barrel? That or a shot out bore is all that really explains tumbling. If it's borderline then it might not be noticeable on every shot. Might need to go to 130gr or flat base if the gamekings don't work out.

  4. #4
    Member marky123's Avatar
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    Hi
    Were these originally 30-06 and then fitted with steel plug chamber adapter to make them 762?
    Micky Duck likes this.

  5. #5
    Bah, humbug ! Frogfeatures's Avatar
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    The Sierras are flat base, so that should help
    Gave the bore and chamber a good clean.
    Itís a carbine, so short barrel.
    I just donít get why it got progressively worse ?

    Edit the Greek stuff was 147 gr.
    Micky Duck likes this.
    He nui to ngaromanga, he iti to putanga.

    You depart with mighty boasts, but you come back having done little.
    Sounds like a typical hunting trip !

  6. #6
    Bah, humbug ! Frogfeatures's Avatar
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    Bore was originally 7 x 57
    Micky Duck likes this.
    He nui to ngaromanga, he iti to putanga.

    You depart with mighty boasts, but you come back having done little.
    Sounds like a typical hunting trip !

  7. #7
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    Mine ,no1 mk3 lithgow , the barrel is very rough ( shreds 4x2 )due to poor storage and I figured the barrel was custard ,confirmed by shooting 150gn highland , sprayed them over a metre at 100m , but 180 gn win would group real close to 300mm @100m,so I guess thats why most old army ammo is 174 gn or bigger.
    Vegetarians Bah !! . If god didn't want us to eat animals he wouldn't have made them out of meat ! .

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    If you have any of the Greek ammo left I would pull the projectiles, dump the powder, ad reload with a mild AR2206H load. If they shoot well it was degraded powder. If the cases are hard to extract you probably have a mildly corrosion in the chamber - don't panic a gunsmith could polish that out OK. If they still keyhole its the projectiles or the barrel.

    My bet is the powder has degraded. I have a friend who's WWII 303 ammo was going off like a 300 Win Mag. We pulled the bullets, and when lit outside it virtually exploded. Cordite definitely degrades over time and moves closer to detonation than a controlled burn, who knows what propellant is in the Greek 7.62 military ammo. There's a reason why armies surplus their old ammo......
    Micky Duck likes this.

  9. #9
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    Some of the GC greek 303 ammo I tried ages ago was a bit naff.
    First shot seemed quite soft with the next few recoiling harder than the last.
    Group was uninspiring.
    This was in a bsa sporterised P14 with a big scope.
    Not light but no recoil pad either.
    Had been many years since I shot a 303 so not sure if the first shot was weak or the last couple were cranky
    Not a lot of shots fired though
    Not even 20. Very small test sample but sounds like pretty normal
    As an added comment, got a friend who got 100 rounds of this in 308 coz it was the cheapest.
    Had a couple of misfires at some goats on a trip up to kaikoura we did several months back
    When it shoots it is acceptably accurate but I wouldntbtrust it
    Micky Duck likes this.

  10. #10
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    Check if it is a small ring mauser or M 98. Some of the older Mausers were converted to caliber's theyr metallurgy wasn't capable of
    Moa Hunter and mimms2 like this.

  11. #11
    Member dogmatix's Avatar
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    You are shooting a 7x57 converted in the 1950s.

    An early 50's convert will more likely be to 7.62◊51mm CETME

    Note the CETME, not NATO. CETME is less powerful. The original projectiles were plastic cored thin jacketed lead rounds (crazy having plastic core!)

    Spain didn't use 7.62x51 Spanish-NATO until later and then only 7.62x51 NATO from 1988.
    This forced Spain to internally rework their firearms to accept the more powerful round.

    Do as 243wssm mentions, load up some reduced power 2206h load with lighter 130gn projectiles and see how it goes.
    Frogfeatures, Micky Duck and Pommy like this.
    Welcome to Sako club.

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    Greetings All,
    I have used a 150 grain round nose with 38 to 40 grains of AR2206H in my .308 rifles for a light target load. The lower load chronographed 2,350 fps in a 22 inch barrel. Shot well.
    Regards Grandpamac.
    Frogfeatures likes this.

  13. #13
    Member dogmatix's Avatar
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    In fact CETME Mil projectiles due to the plastic core would only weigh 113gns. But long and skinny.

    Hornady and Sierra do cheap 110gn and 125gn projectiles.

    Barnes will be too $$
    Frogfeatures likes this.
    Welcome to Sako club.

  14. #14
    Member Cordite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grandpamac View Post
    Greetings @Frogfeatures,
    The problem was most likely the crap ammo. My experience with the Greek .303 ammo is that some is excellent and some absolute rubbish. Likely due to poor storage.
    Regards Grandpamac.
    Yep, never judge a milsurp on how it does with questionable ammo. New quality .308 is not that expensive.
    Micky Duck likes this.
    "I find television very educating. Every time somebody turns on the set, I go into the other room and read a book." Groucho Marx

  15. #15
    Bah, humbug ! Frogfeatures's Avatar
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    Loaded up 43 gr 2206h to try next range day. ( Sierra 150 gr )
    Thats ADIís start load.
    Weíll see how that goes.
    I pulled 5 rounds of the greek stuff, cleaned the cases and Iíll try
    some 150 gr Hornady projectiles as well.

    PS thought Iíd see how the military powder burned, went off like a flame thrower.
    It was very fine granules.
    I used a kinetic hammer to pull them down, surprised at how easily the projectiles came out.
    Last edited by Frogfeatures; 23-07-2021 at 10:51 PM.
    Micky Duck likes this.
    He nui to ngaromanga, he iti to putanga.

    You depart with mighty boasts, but you come back having done little.
    Sounds like a typical hunting trip !

 

 

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