Hey guys how do you know if all the copper fouling has been removed when using this stuff as the patches dont change colour?
Printable View
Hey guys how do you know if all the copper fouling has been removed when using this stuff as the patches dont change colour?
Try one with ammonia?, if it turns blue its still there just dont use a bronze jag.
So they are staying yellow? Usual go black for the first couple if there’s copper.
Yeh staying yellow. I thought they went black if there was carbon????
I used KG 1 carbon remover until the patches came out clean then switched to KG 12
I had trouble with copper last year in the 06 , try gunslick foam it go,s really blue spray down the barrel till it comes out the other end wipe off excess & tape it up leave it for the night barrel down , repeat till copper is gone.
Cheers, will give that a crack....just seems stupid that you have to use another copper remover to verify if this one is working:XD:Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Henry
Cheers @Boaraxa
You should be able to see copper with a good light at the muzzle.
Boretech Eliminator is very good for both Cu and carbon removal. Shows up blue with Cu unlike KG12 which does not. +1 fo using a LED torch for observing residual Cu in the lanz at muzzle
Of all the snake oil I have used, Boretech Eliminator works the best
Cheers guys, checked out the muzzle with a torch and can't see any copper
Do you guys ever use a copper or nylon brush after a shooting sesh or just patches ? If u don’t use a brush very often at what point do you use one ?
I’m pretty good these days at cleaning after use but still if I’m developing a load or doing a drop chart crud has a way of building up I’m thinking a brush could prevent build up ?
Careful using ammonia based cleaners with stainless barrels, not a good mix. You will see that your Boretech products & others generally advertise ammonia free for that reason.
Sent from my SM-A530F using Tapatalk
Nylon brush when required but patches only most of the time.
Old school hoppes 9 removes copper to if you leave it in your barrel for a few days, quite a bit comes out.
Pretty sure there was some quite convincing field tests on KG12 and others. Duley mag? Chucked a Barnes bullet in the test fluids and measured weights before and after. The KG12 bullet was the only one that showed significant weight loss. I like the stuff. Mine comes out black/blue at start with KG12. Some carbon removers do take a lot of copper out. IMO people often overlook carbon fouling. I think in some rifles its worse than Cu. If all the carbon is not gone you may not be able to attack the Cu. Or, you may just have a great barrel for not fouling.
Same as KJ above, I use the KG carbon cleaner & it quite often gets a bit of copper out as well (shows blue on the patch) I’ll run 2-3 patch’s thru with it until the carbon has cleaned up & then put another one thru & let it soak for 15min & it will generally have some copper on it, oil patch & job done.
Current wisdom seems to be that carbon is your enemy as opposed to copper. As in get the carbon out and leave the copper till it starts to degrade accuracy, being that it fills in any voids in the bore. Makes sense to me. But I remember when copper was the devil, or maybe the bore solvent companies just perpetuated that??Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwijames
Copper wash does no harm. Use white spirits to clean carbon out till clean patch. Leave the copper alone unless a serious problem developes.
I use the KG1, KG4 and KG12 products and have been lucky enough to review the results using my employer's $25K Olympus Videoscope. I can catagorically tell you that the KG1 Carbon Cleaner will not remove any significant amount of copper. Nor will Hoppes #9 for that matter. If you run any normal bore cleaner through the barrel the copper will remain and you can look down the bore all you like but it's unlikely you'll see anything untoward. It is not until you run a copper cleaning product down the bore that you will be able to see the copper... then it glows like gold.
With KG12 (and M-Pro 7) I've found you need to leave it in the barrel for a good 20 - 30 minutes to have any effect. Running it through the bore a couple of times then putting a dry cloth through immediately afterwards is unlikely to have any great effect. Leaving it for half an hour then putting a tight wad through typically removes the copper in a couple of goes.
I have some good boroscope photos as examples if anyone is interested.
As for whether or not the copper is a problem........... I'm yet to be totally convinced. I'm happy to be educated either way.
I agree with the carbon enemy thing that seems to be the "methode de genre' for now .... makes sense, carbon lays down on every shot on top of the copper deposited. As the air reacts with the carbon it turns to a hardened layer. My thoughts are that it should be removed at the end of the day at a minimum.
It is well known that KG12 needs to be patched or brushed to work quickly, the instructions on the bottle suggest up to 20 odd passes may be necessary.
This video shows how quickly KG12 can work when swabbed, patched or brushed... skip to 4:15
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jjmfro2R6rs
Gunwerks also has a cleaning tutorial using KG products.
I Use the products mentioned also. An easy way to check for copper fouling in the muzzle is with an ear bud.... hold the muzzle near a light source and put the bud in muzzle, it will reflect light and you can now see inside the end of the muzzle. Works well.
For what it's worth, here are some photos showing copper fouling of a new barrel. This particular rifle settled down quite quickly after only 30-35 rounds and these days shows very little sign of copper after a hunting trip.
Attachment 87976
Attachment 87977
Attachment 87978
Attachment 87979
Attachment 87980
Attachment 87981
You can see the evolution from day one where it had a lot of copper after a 3-shot group, through to reduced levels of copper during the run-in process and finally having next to nothing after a week in the hills. The last photo is a clean barrel after KG12 application.
Cool photos!
KG 12 does work well but I found I needed to leave it in for about 24 hours. My 300 Rum had noticeable copper build up at the muzzle end and after scrubbing barrel with a nylon brush and KG 12 and leaving it overnight it had removed the copper.
I use it only when I can see the build up and in between use Hoppe's Solvent which I have used since I started hunting and has worked well for me. Patches do show green if you scrub and leave in for a day or two so it must be removing some copper.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stug
Thats a nice Finnish barrel. You should see a typical "average quality" barrel from our US manufacturers. I'll try and find a picture for you tomorrow.
Awesome photos. I soaked a bullet in Hoppes number 9 overnight (I think) and the copper was definitely breaking down. So it does have an effect on copper.
Tried most things.
Wipe out foam with accelerator is the best so far then gunslick foaming bore cleaner then its kg products then eleminator.
Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
Same here, tend to use a foam cleaner most often.
Non toxic, easy to use and good results.
Here is a not-so-good barrel. Looking down with a normal torch it's not possible to see anything untoward and in fact it looks clean and in good condition. But dig a little deeper with the videoscope and you can see its pretty ugly.
Attachment 88020
Here is something else that's ugly, just for a bit of fun:
What the Turbine Blade should look like in service...
Attachment 88018
... and what it shouldn't look like in service...
Attachment 88019
No amount of KG12 is going to bring back that turbine blade!
One good point from those photo's is that even the crappy looking US barrels shoot ok even if they look bad through a video scope.
I agree 100%, Mooseman. I have a good friend who keeps telling me I need to re-barrel one of my old favourites because - as he says, the rifling is completely f**ked. Yet it continues to put cheap factory ammo into a 1" target at 200 metres. I for one would not want to stand in front of it, even at 500 metres.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooseman
Theres hope for my project yet then.Quote:
Originally Posted by planenutz
Great pictures.
After closer inspection (below) The Doctor believes that aqueous ammonia could also be considered as an effective & inexpensive alternative for copper removal as long as it is not left in the barrel for hours on end. A clearly visible Tardis colour from fouling. Available in most advanced civilisations.
Attachment 88051
I use the MPro-7 line of products. I have always found them really good and I can normally clear out a few hundred rounds of copper down to the steel in a couple of runs through. I let the copper remover sit for about an hour and then clear it with gun cleaner and then reapply copper remover.
I agree with the borescope, often you can find things that aren't really an issue or get upset that your brand new barrels rifling has tooling marks in it etc.
