Lee 358-158-RF and Other Bullets

I really like the Lee 358-158-RF projectiles. But so far I haven't managed to shoot them consistently into small enough groups.

The Lee 358-200-RF bullets have performed well for me at just under 1000fps. And the 358-125-RF bullets give me acceptable accuracy for close range hunting. It would be good though, if I could tame the 158 grain bullets with their lovely big meplat. I've tried them at subsonic speeds up to maybe 1550 fps. Sometimes I shoot a group that falls into the 'good enough' category, but then I might get a flyer or a completely lousy group.

I don't know why bullets should perform differently with different powders, but it seems to be the case. ADI AP70N seems to give the best results, but my testing hasn't been extensive. I also have Trail Boss, AR2205 and APS350. My worst groups are often associated with APS350. The AR2205 seems to make a disproportionately loud bang.

So I'm wondering.... has anybody had pleasing accuracy using Lee 358-158-RN bullets? (I'd settle for 4MOA, but I'd prefer 3MOA or less). If you shoot Lee bullets in your .357 magnum rifle, which ones give you the best results?

Thanks in advance... Coote.

https://i.imgur.com/lb7dXsj.jpg

I can see the attraction withthe big flat metplate...sorry I cant help as to how to fix issues...I assume you have tried a heavier crimping???

I admit I've been reluctant to crimp heavily. That is mainly because I want to reduce the stress on my reloadable brass. It is interesting that the lighter, shorter 125 grain projectile with perhaps a slightly longer 'jump' to the rifling performs better than the longer 158 grain bullet which has greater mass/inertia. But if I am serious about making improvements, I guess I should try crimping my more promising loads to see if it helps to tighten my groups. Perhaps I should try seating the bullets out far enough to kiss the rifling to help slow their escape. I've tried different seating depths but found it didn't make a significant difference. Although I only loaded a few cartridges for my seating depth experiment.

or seat other loads deeper to match the jump of the lighter ones.... lots to try.

now which factory load worked best for you???? there may be a hint in that somewhere...eg seating depth.

Heh. Haven't shot any factory loads at all through my Bergara.

Thanks for the ideas.

The rifle is a single-shot so there is no recoil problem. When I was using the Rossi .357 levergun I was concerned about bullet movement, but I never noticed it happening... although my loads were relatively gentle ones. The Rossi is a lovely rifle.... it reminds me of my Uncle and the old 32-20 I saw him drop a deer with. However the Rossi is going to a new home and I am going to concentrate on my single-shots for a while.

I just went and weighed 15 random projectiles from my latest batch of 358-158-RFs. The lightest and the heaviest were only one grain apart (161.5gn up to 162.5gn). I suppose I should weigh my more successful projectiles to see if they vary even less.

I could just give up on the 158-RF as I have other bullets that perform well enough, but I'd like to use it. Another bullet that I had even more of an accuracy problem with is the Lee TL358-158-SWC. Some folks on the 'net have had great success with it. I guess I'll hang on to the mould for now.... if I solve the mystery of the RF bullet, I may be well on the way to being able to use the TL158-SWC. I've just ordered the Lee 358-140-SWC mould and I'm looking forward to seeing how those bullets perform.

what jumps out from that is both are 158...grains I presume?????
maybe your better off lighter or heavier.... maybe try one group of your heavies with dies set for the 158s that are best....assumedly the seater is touching on olgive somewhere so should be similar distance from rifling.

I'm guessing "neck tension" is what holds the bullet instead of a crimp.
Ap 70 is the equivalent of unique, pretty much the universal cast bullet powder. Fast burning powders will give you more consistent results I'm guessing there's a lot of unburnt powder in the bore with the other two as you aren't developing enough pressure for complete combustion.
Crimping may help but I'd look at trailboss first it's not designed for high velocities but it will burn clean

Yes... the two least successful projectiles have a nominal weight of 158 grains - which is kinda funny seeing as many regard this as the 'standard' projectile for a .357.

The best projectile in the Bergara is long and weighs 200 grains. The second best is quite short and weighs 125 g. The Rossi shot very well with the 125 grainers and was marginal with the Lee 158 at subsonic speeds (it probably would have done better if they were faster). But it couldn't control the 200 grain bullets... they hit the target sideways at 25 yards.

My 140 grain mould may be here by Wednesday and I hope to take a new selection of loads to the range a few days later. I'm quite enjoying the problem.

What bullet metal are you using?

Yep Marty, if I had to choose one powder for the .357 it would be AP70N. I do have Trail Boss and it has performed well with some loads, but it hasn't helped as much as I'd like with the Lee 158RF bullets. When I first started reloading for the .357 I used some swaged Speer 158 grain round-nosed projectiles. They worked pretty well with 4.2 grains of Trail Boss as I recall.... and that was through the Rossi with the slow twist. I wish I'd kept better records back then. I still have one target with an excellent group of these on it. If the Speer bullets had a flat nose I might have just stayed using those. I bought some Speer hollow semi-wadcutters, but I couldn't get those to group as well and I gave them away.

I haven't noticed any unburned powder. And I agree that fast powders should be better. I bought some APS350 which is meant to be even faster than Trail Boss. I tried using it with my 200 grain subsonic loads. However where my groups at 25 yards can be less than 0.75 inch using AP70N, the group I propelled with APS350 was about three inches if I recall correctly.

I find it interesting that what apparently works for some doesn't necessarily work for others. For a while I've been aware of the saying 'Every rifle is a law unto itself', and now I'm experiencing the evidence.

Hi Targex. Currently I'm using melted down flashing lead and scraps from leadlight came. I added 50-50 solder to the mix to give me a small tin content. I have a supply of ingots made from wheel weights, but I haven't tried using them yet. My philosophy is to use the softest possible mix in the hope that it will give me a greater chance of expansion.

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Originally Posted by Coote

Hi Targex. Currently I'm using melted down flashing lead and scraps from leadlight came. I added 50-50 solder to the mix to give me a small tin content. I have a supply of ingots made from wheel weights, but I haven't tried using them yet. My philosophy is to use the softest possible mix in the hope that it will give me a greater chance of expansion.

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You are on the right track, My bullets are cast as soft as possible to get expansion HP's are necessary for 1100Fps or less; over that 50/50 wheel weights and pure lead will expand
well with out a HP, I have Lyman's 170 grain Keith SWC mould if you like I can send you some bullets to try, If you want more weight I also have a mould that casts 220 gr HP and 240 gr FP
would work in your Bergara no problem.

Thanks Shooternz. I will send you a private message.

I hoped you would chime in @shooternz . when it comes to all thing cast,listen to this fella coote...he knows his shit and makes great projectiles as many many folks on here will attest to.....got home today to package of lovely big fat hollow based .45/70 projectiles.

I'm grateful for the help and it will be good to get some of those Keith bullets. They seem to be highly regarded, especially in the USA. I heard of Elmer Keith and his long range pistol shooting when I was quite young. I associate him with good times spent with my elders.... and the piles of old 'American Rifleman' and 'Outdoor Life' magazines I used to thumb through as a kid.

What powder do you like to use for those 45-70s Micky? And what velocity seems best for them?

home rolled black or 2206 as for velocity...dont know and to borrow quote from gone with the wind"and frankly my dear I dont give a damn"

sorry coote...its 2208 try this link its got some great loads.

Rifle (Single Action) - ADI World Class Powders and Ammunition

sorry coote...its 2208 try this link its got some great loads.

Rifle (Single Action) - ADI World Class Powders and Ammunition

you will need to look in the pistol section for your 357mag but plenty of loads there to give idea where to go...not 100% sure what difference will be but from memory the factory rifle loads were way hotter than pistol loads....well the pistol loads were weak in rifle by comparison anyway.

Thanks Micky. When you say 'home rolled'.... have you made black powder that works successfully in a cartridge? You have my attention.

PM inbound.....

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

I hoped you would chime in @shooternz . when it comes to all thing cast,listen to this fella coote...he knows his shit and makes great projectiles as many many folks on here will attest to.....got home today to package of lovely big fat hollow based .45/70 projectiles.

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I am happy the bullets arrived ok the new courier is hitting 100% so far,
I have had some inquiries for HP 45/70 bullets, I have done some searching on the internet the one I have always liked is the Gould 330grain HP from the 1880's
friwi likes it too but it is only available from Lyman and is single cavity so a non runner real arse of thing to cast with; there are three others a 315 gr a 350 gr and a HP version of the ones you have
in HB all GC not sure of delivery time as they are catalog items but may not be in stock.

pencil me in.......then I wont be doctoring your ones hehehehehe hope you have forgiven me for the zombiemax version???
from the ones Ive recovered from dirt behind target,it certainly made them open up quickly.