Loading 7.62x39 subsonic from steel cased factory ammo

I'm just curious - still haven't decided to get into reloading yet - but let's say I wanted to make a batch of subsonic load out of factory steel cased ammo with 125grn projectiles, for used in a 16" suppressed bolt gun.

Could I pull the projectile and then:

1. Reduce the powder charge and use some polyester wadding to keep the charge against the flash hole; OR
2. Load with a more appropriate powder that uses the case capacity but keeps the load subsonic

(Not intending to reload the steel case after firing.)

The intention behind this is to keep the overall component cost low, and achieve subsonic for close range pest control <100m.
I'm aware of 300BLK but given the availability of 7.62x39 I thought this idea might have some merit.

Let me know if this is a bad idea / why / or possible?

Number 1 depends on the powder, apparently reduced charges with some powders can be dangerous.

Pulling the projectile probably stuffs up your neck tension, so it may not even hold the projectile when reseated.

dumb idea....1 cause subsonic has to be spot on or will wound animals
2 cause reloading in steel cases is problimatic
3 cause the projectiles will likely be very hard so at subsonic speed will be akin to fmj
4 cause the ammunition will kill 1000 times better as it is.....
if you want subsonic stuff to try...get some made up properly or buy some...try it before you attemp to recreate it...awesome for plinking and close small peskis but it has big downside when yo uget it wrong.

OK so I used to pull military fmj projectiles from steel case and swap to soft point. Worked fine but the sporting projectiles were soft jacketed lead and the FMJs were steel jacket so hard. But you still need a bullet puller and reloading press so then you can almost reload. You just need a primer tool and scales.

Reloading subsonic loads will require removal of the original powder and using different powder like Tail Boss, shotgun powder or similar. ONLY DO THIS WITH PROPER DATA and get a reloading lesson.

Subsoinic projectiles are significantly less deadly than full power loads, you will have to get up close and go for head/neck ideally.

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Originally Posted by Cigar

Number 1 depends on the powder, apparently reduced charges with some powders can be dangerous.

Pulling the projectile probably stuffs up your neck tension, so it may not even hold the projectile when reseated.

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I can say from the millitary 7.62 that I decapped and re-projectiled that there was no shortage of neck tension, the steel cases are just about forged onto the projectile. However it's going to depend on each manufacturer as they don't make to SAMI specifications.

OOPS forgot to emphasise we never re-seated the factory fmj's, only new soft points.

All good points thanks. To clarify I meant pulling the projectile, changing the powder load, and then putting the original SP projectile back in. (No decapping or priming.)

But I see there could be an issue of neck tension and expansion at low velocity will likely be poor.

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Originally Posted by Daniel L

All good points thanks. To clarify I meant pulling the projectile, changing the powder load, and then putting the original SP projectile back in. (No decapping or priming.)

But I see there could be an issue of neck tension and expansion at low velocity will likely be poor.

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I found the "SP" projectiles in Chinese ammo relatively poor anyway (full velocity), I suspect they don't know much about making them. The Russian stuff Barnaul, is on the other hand great. Unfortunately we're unlikely to see much of that again...

Buy something that is already the size of a expanded 7.62 and that uses projectiles designed to be subsonic - eg .45ACP.

get a 300blk

There's a couple of guys in USA that are doing what you're suggesting. Google/Utube it for more info. If you're worried about neck tension just crimp it. The 7.62x39 is a great round for what I hunt, including red deer when used according to your abilities & confidence.
You'll never lose reloading.

you could replace the powder with a subsonic type like trailboss

it would be better to start with a brass case as steel is not what loading gear is made for and possibly could(probably will) damage something like the expander or seater

once you work out how easy it is to knock out and replace the primer this will become a mute point as you are basically just making extra work for yourself this way

opening a rifle bullet up and tipping some out then reseating the bullet is a recipie for an explosion, you need a different type of powder with a different pressure curve (usually a shot gun or pistol powder) but trailboss is easier again as you dont need a packer to hold the powder against the primer flash hole

Dies can handle steel cases, as a exercise I reloaded several hundred wolf steel 223 cases as a trial years ago. The wolf ammo had boxer primers so it was doable. Just neck sized with no issue although after the 3rd reloading the lacquer had worn off the necks and they flash rusted. When I went back to brass there were no wear marks or anything on the brass cases.
It doesn't sit right with me the use of bullets intended for supersonic applications at sub sonic speeds. Expansion won't occur you can of course load them back to front but my preference subsonic is a lump of cast lead can't beat it.

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Originally Posted by Marty Henry

Dies can handle steel cases, as a exercise I reloaded several hundred wolf steel 223 cases as a trial years ago. The wolf ammo had boxer primers so it was doable. Just neck sized with no issue although after the 3rd reloading the lacquer had worn off the necks and they flash rusted. When I went back to brass there were no wear marks or anything on the brass cases.
It doesn't sit right with me the use of bullets intended for supersonic applications at sub sonic speeds. Expansion won't occur you can of course load them back to front but my preference subsonic is a lump of cast lead can't beat it.

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thats awesome to know, I have heard forever that steel is non reloadable
Id be grabbing a bag of Roberts 151gr hollow points and a bit of trailboss if you can find it, makes for cheeper than buying bullets and they work well

@ Daniel L
I load 300 blk, 7.62x39. .44mag and have also loaded 9mm all to subsonic velocities for hunting.

I can appreciate your intentions, especially in the current climate of component shortages so please realise that
I am not talking past your question, but rather talking past the middle of your journey to the conclusion you will inevitably reach if you go down the subsonic path but hopefully saving you the cost and time of the learning experience.

Your idea works in theory but in practice it will be impractical and will not save you any money. Whatever money you spend
on this project in the original intention will be a sunk cost prior to spending money on a more reliable fit for purpose option.

Firstly as a few have stated, subsonics are not reliable for stopping animals. But they are quiet and used properly they do work. For anything bigger than a hare I prefer not to rely on subs though. I see their application as more of a ‘try not to scare other animals’ option as opposed to an ‘I can hunt in a place where I couldn’t without subs’ kind of option. I prefer to have the first one in the mag subsonic and the balance of the mag standard velocity. The rule being that if you can’t kill an unsuspecting animal with a sub then you probably can’t kill a frightened spooked with a sub.


If after reading all of the above you are still keen on having subsonic rounds for your rifle then your cheapest option will be as follows.

Collect at least 20 reloadable brass cases.
Put the word out here on the forum that your keen on having them reloaded, that you have purchased your own components but not the equipment. Offer some sort of quid pro quo (LR primers are are sure bet right now) and a friendly local member of the forum will hopefully reach out to offer you some assistance.

7.62x39 can usually be loaded with accurate subsonics using 150gr RN projectiles and trailboss powder.

I realise that what I have described is an order of magnitude more in cost than what you were originally asking about but it is the minimum cost of fit for purpose subsonics for the 7.62x39. It’s like the difference between a $500 car with no wheels or a $10000 with wheels. If you want something that works you just have to absorb the cost.

I use 30cal subs for everything these days, in 300blk
It works well on everthing from turkeys to home kill bulls

shots need to sever the spine(hard) or scramble the brain(less hard)
I site for 30m and stick to that or closer for things that matter

because Im limited to how far I can see, closing the distance to 30m is hardly an issue
Attachment 195189

its kind of like bow hunting but they die on impact

@Bill999 most aren't reloadable as they're berdan primed but for some reason the wolf ones were boxer and the small rifle primer size

This is a ‘one day’ plan of mine, got a heap of military ammo and some Trailboss and a bullet puller and dies so far.

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Originally Posted by Bill999

thats awesome to know, I have heard forever that steel is non reloadable
Id be grabbing a bag of Roberts 151gr hollow points and a bit of trailboss if you can find it, makes for cheeper than buying bullets and they work well

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@shooternz

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Originally Posted by Bill999

I use 30cal subs for everything these days, in 300blk
It works well on everthing from turkeys to home kill bulls

shots need to sever the spine(hard) or scramble the brain(less hard)
I site for 30m and stick to that or closer for things that matter

because Im limited to how far I can see, closing the distance to 30m is hardly an issue
Attachment 195189

its kind of like bow hunting but they die on impact

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@Bill999, Are you using cast lead bullets or the expensive subsonic copper bullets?

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Originally Posted by winaa

@Bill999, Are you using cast lead bullets or the expensive subsonic copper bullets?

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in my 300blk im using 190 subx
I have a cast 151 load Iv built up for both my 308 and 300blk that I use interchangeably
I still have a fair few boxes of subx and I used up all my loaded cast ones so till I sit down and do a afternoon of loading its just subx at the moment


I done a calculation yesterday, my friends 300winmag we sited in has more energy out to 1400yards than the 190 subx exiting the barrel

I did consider 300 BLK too but to get started I wanted to get into some low cost factory ammo, hence 7.62x39 before getting into reloading.
I did wonder how much I'd actually shoot it (compared to .22 and air rifle where I put through a lot), so possibly factory 300 BLK ammo might be the way to go too and build up a stash of once fired brass.

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Originally Posted by Daniel L

I did consider 300 BLK too but to get started I wanted to get into some low cost factory ammo, hence 7.62x39 before getting into reloading.
I did wonder how much I'd actually shoot it (compared to .22 and air rifle where I put through a lot), so possibly factory 300 BLK ammo might be the way to go too and build up a stash of once fired brass.

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nothing wrong with subs out of the 7.62x39 except when you miss you have to say "ах дерьмо" instead of "ah shit"

in regards to storing up brass I usually only load up between 20 and 30 at a time. the 151gr hollow points from shooternz will do the same thing at the same speed no matter whats sending them
Iv already used them in 308 & 300blk
I use trailboss as the powder to send them. If you had your own bag of projectiles and powder (and primers) Im sure someone would help you put some loads together till you set yourself up with a press

I've also been impressed with the SubX so far. Here's one recovered after passing through a wallaby's chest and burying in the dirt.

Attachment 195597

And here's a headshot. Small entry between the eyes. Blew the top open.

Attachment 195600

Obviously not the same as using a high velocity round but pretty reliable expansion creating a nice long wound channel.

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Originally Posted by Pommy

I've also been impressed with the SubX so far. Here's one recovered after passing through a wallaby's chest and burying in the dirt.


Obviously not the same as using a high velocity round but pretty reliable expansion creating a nice long wound channel.

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everything Iv shot with it so far has been a very convincing kill
Im careful with shot placement but I have zero complaints with it
strangely it hits harder and kills better than a 44mag at subsonic

Haven`t done it for a few years as shoot a 44mag sub gun now days but used to shoot the Chinese 7.62x39 steel cased military rounds at subsonic. Would pull the projectile, toss the powder and replace it with a measure of Win231. Poke a piece of toilet paper on top of the powder as a filler then replace the full military jacket bullet. Shot quite a few pigs and Red deer with them. Generally went for head shots as was a NV set up and could get close. If shot in the chest and as the bullets are just statically stable they tumble on impact. Generally they exited the off side rib cage side on. Deer chest shot would run but you would pick them up within 50 mts of where you shot them.

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Originally Posted by Tasbay

Haven`t done it for a few years as shoot a 44mag sub gun now days but used to shoot the Chinese 7.62x39 steel cased military rounds at subsonic. Would pull the projectile, toss the powder and replace it with a measure of Win231. Poke a piece of toilet paper on top of the powder as a filler then replace the full military jacket bullet. Shot quite a few pigs and Red deer with them. Generally went for head shots as was a NV set up and could get close. If shot in the chest and as the bullets are just statically stable they tumble on impact. Generally they exited the off side rib cage side on. Deer chest shot would run but you would pick them up within 50 mts of where you shot them.

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what projectiles do you use in the 44 mag for subsonic?
Im using fiocchi 44 special coyboy loads from gunworks and they seem like real poor performers

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Originally Posted by Bill999

what projectiles do you use in the 44 mag for subsonic?
Im using fiocchi 44 special coyboy loads from gunworks and they seem like real poor performers

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.44 mag has to go a bit slower than the smaller calibers in order to stay subsonic (the wider the projectile the earlier it breaks the SB)
At subsonic or around about subsonic seems to be the speed at which projectiles just don’t have the ripping effect of the high speed stuff.
I have found that it is just as important if not more so to hit CNS with subsonic .44 mag as with .30 cal subs or .22 sub.

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Originally Posted by longshot

.44 mag has to go a bit slower than the smaller calibers in order to stay subsonic (the wider the projectile the earlier it breaks the SB)
At subsonic or around about subsonic seems to be the speed at which projectiles just don’t have the ripping effect of the high speed stuff.
I have found that it is just as important if not more so to hit CNS with subsonic .44 mag as with .30 cal subs or .22 sub.

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Im just finding them less affective than the 30cal subs but thats probably also just due to projectile design
Ill throw a few over the chroni and confirm the speed they are going
really I just need to get over my straight walled reloading problems and make my own with something like robert makes for the 30cals
that or go to town with the drill and open up these cast coated ones into a hollow points

300BLK

Here’s a sow I shot last week with the 308win using 151gr HP cast lead from 7m, 2 minutes before that I shot a possum. Will use theses projectiles in both 308 and 300 blackout. I your serious about hunting with subsonics you really need to know the animals anatomy for proper bullet placement and need to know the bullets trajectory, also ideally handy is quick follow shots. I will sum times give the animal two more shots just to make sure it doesn’t run off to far. Running subsonics is not cheap as there is a lot of range work knowing speeds of every batch of ammo and trajectory validation out to intended distance.
Have tried 220gr round nose, 230gr OTM, 220gr and 240gr match kings and few others, the 1:7 twist I’ve got on my 300BLK is very versatile for running any projectile.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...1e1bef09_b.jpg

This is some of the subsonics I use, 208gr ELD-m, 151gr HP cast lead, Lehigh Defence 168gr Controled Fracturing and 194gr Maximum Expansion.
The Lehigh’s need a minimum twist of 1:8 and are by far the quickest killer on deer and pig on body/lung shots and I’ve shot some 400+ deer with them. I was using sub-x projectiles but I run out of them on my last trip, they are not that great on deer as I’ve had a couple of runners and lost them( no dog on those trips ).

Both top projectiles pulled from red stags top left Lehigh 168gr CF and top right 194gr ME

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...2a6a3848_b.jpg

This was my last hunt with the 300 blackout but any fast twist 30 cal 308win , 7.62x39 etc would do the same.

https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....hy-roar-81117/

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Originally Posted by Bill999

what projectiles do you use in the 44 mag for subsonic?
Im using fiocchi 44 special coyboy loads from gunworks and they seem like real poor performers

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Just use the Berry`s 240 grain hollow points. They are hard lead copper washed. Not great at opening up but cheap and I`m careful with my shots.