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Hi all I’m still very new to reloading but have had some exceptional help so far but it’s time to fly out of the nest and start some basics myself.
I have a tin of IMR 4895 powder and a heap of 165gr Hornady BTSP projectiles so thought I’d try get a reasonable hunting load out of what I already have. Was keen to know if anyone is loading something similar and what sort of results I should be expecting.
Cheers Matt
Online rules
Attachment 206571
As above, shouldn't go too far wrong with about 44-45gns of 4895 behind a 165gn projectile.
Cheers that showing quite different information what I’ve been looking at.Attachment 206575
The powder's about perfect for the weight of the bullet so there's no reason there that it cannot work well. But you gotta figure out how much to use, how deep to seat the bullet, which brass to use and how to prepare it etc... there's plenty of other ways there to stuff it up after picking an appropriate powder. Attention to detail at every step of the way and you'll get good results.
Thanks @Pommy that’s good to know. The rifle I’m running them in has been liked everything that’s been thrown down it so far so hopefully I can keep it that way ��. Will put up an update once I’ve loaded some up and done some testing at the range.
assumably you already have a load of similar type???? use that to set your seating die..... it wont be far off ideal as the die will hit olgive in similar place giving similar bullet jump... as good of place to start as any...
Greetings.
As part of a wider test I chronographed 43 grains of AR2206H (H4895) behind the 165 grain Hornady Interlock projectile. The cases were CAC and the primers Federal 210. Velocity was 2,575 fps in a 20" barrel. AR2206H and IMR4895 are very close in speed and within a few fps for the same load so your result should be similar. The CAC cases weigh a little over 160 grains with a fired primer and other .308 cases can run as heavy as 187 grains so check weigh your cases to see where they fit and don't mix your brass. If your cases are on the heavy end I would reduce the load by at least 1 grain and chronograph to check that velocity is in line with the Hodgdons data after allowing for your barrel length at 25 fps per inch of barrel difference.
Regards Grandpamac.
Thanks @grandpamac that’s great information. I have a a few different batches of brass so will check weights of all before I start.
I’m running an 18inch barrel with a 1-10 twist rate. I’ve previously been running a 150gr sst with 2208 getting 2600fps and shot extremely well. Only reason I’m trying this load is due to the supply that I have.
Greetings Again,
The test mentioned included the chronographing of .308W loads with 3 different projectile weights and a total of 5 different powders which I wrote up for an article in HZ Guns and Hunting. I tested AR2206H and AR2208 with the 150 grain Hornady Interlock, Winchester cases and 44 grains of both powders. Velocities were 2,675 fps for AR2206H and 2,560 fps for AR2208. Bullet impact varied a little with the 125 grains shooting 30mm high and the 165 grain 50mm right compared to the 150 grain at 60 metres (a convenient range for chronographing on my range. Screens were at 3 metres. The article was on the NZ Guns online platform and might still be available through their facebook page. All loads shot well bar the usual odd flier.
Regards Grandpamac.
Greetings again,Quote:
Originally Posted by mattstr
Where did this data come from? Curiosity and a damp morning had me looking through my various data sets. As a WAG perhaps it is Hornady?
GPM.
@grandpamac that gives me a great insite thanks I will try and track down that article and have a read through. The brass Il be using will be just over 160.
Correct that information was from Hornday. My Speer manual says similar with 43grains being max load.
Attachment 206608
Il be be loading up some this afternoon and hopefully hit the range weather dependant.
Be interested where you would start this load based on the different recommendations suggested
Thanks a lot for your time
Matt
Greetings again,
Starting from scratch with a new powder in your rifle I would load 2 each of 39, 41 and 43 grains and chronograph each pair. What you are looking for is the velocity compared to the data after allowing for your shorter barrel length at 25 fps per inch. I would expect around 2,500 to 2,550 fps based on my results. Happy loading.
Regards Grandpamac.
Hodgdon data uses Winchester brass. In my experience has a larger internal capacity than most other brass meaning you'll need a higher charge weight to get the same pressure/velocity than brass with a smaller internal capacity. Hornady data uses Hornady brass which in my experience has on average a smaller internal capacity than Winchester, that's why the charge weights are higher on the Hodgdon data. Internal ballistics is a whole other topic do we should leave it there :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by mattstr
Try and use at least the same brand of brass in your load development and final load, it'll save you many headaches.
Same advice as always, start low at the minimum charge weight and work up through the charge weights paying attention to pressure signs and you'll be fine.
Thanks all for such great feedback a lot taken onboard here. The brass I will be using is winchester. But have some other brass going forward which weighed a lot heavier than what I’m using so guessing by that will be higher pressure due to thinker case as @ratedM forMagnum discussed in his comment.
I have spent the evening getting my loads sorted and will post an update on how they shoot tomorrow.
I'm interested in this one brass approach as it is commonly stated. Genuine question here - How much does it really matter for hunting, especially for meat for the table?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rated M for Magnum
Why I ask:
1. Anecdotally, most hunters by far are taking their shots, and kills under 200m with many, possibly the vast majority, under 100m
2. If you are killing for meat, high velocity disintegrating style projectiles are not your friend for body shots. Slower
2000-2600fps, or even down into the mid teens with cast, are going to kill effectively and give a cleaner carcass. So case capacity is hardly an issue if not chasing max velocity
3. Under 200m a 50-80fps velocity variation at the muzzle from different combustion pressures arising from different case capacity is not going to give a meaningful difference in POI, all else being equal.
So I understand the potential importance to bench rest shooters and long distance hunters, or to those wanting reliable head or neck shots where an inch variation might really matter, but for the vast majority of us, should we care?
I do sort and keep my rifle brass in bagged batches of the same headstamp. But I load them all the same if I have an established hunting load. There is more variation in my shooting ability than I will ever get from brass variation I think. The only exception I have personally found is loading 22 Hornet to max loads with frangible tipped Hornady projectiles. Some case brands simply won't seat the bullet over a full charge and allow the round to load in the mag. But that is a different issue I think.
Greetings All,Quote:
Originally Posted by Jhon
I was sorting out some loads for a friends .222 earlier in the year, The old loads were with mixed cases srtung vertically about 100mm at 60 metres where the new loads in single headstamp cases produced small groups Ke Waters had chronographed the same load in different cases, again for the .222, varying by as much as 200 fps so this was likely the problem. That said some cartridges seem to plonk most projectiles with different velocities in much the same hole. My experience is that the .308 is not one of those. Regarding the Hornady cases the batch I have are close to identical to later production Winchester. I did read that the earlier Hornady cases may have been made by another firm so current cases could vary from the earlier ones. From my own experience 2 additional grains of powder raised the PoI by around 50mm at 100 metres. It has been stated that US Army brass in the .308 is around 20 grains heavier than Winchester etc and got the same velocity with 2 grains less powder. I have done some loads to check this and will report once they are shot and chronographed. From all this it seems that a significantly heavier case has the copacity to raise the point of impact by as much as 50mm at 100 metres and a little over twice that at 200 metres in the .308. I think that is significant.
Regards Grandpamac.
Results are as follows.
41 gr Velocity = na
42 gr Velocity = 2495
42.5gr Velocity =2515
43gr Velocity = 2545
Attachment 206702
Greetings and congrats,
It looks as though your powder lot, barrel etc is closer to the Speer and Hornady data than the Hodgdons so this verifies your result. All you need to do now is decide if it is 42.5 or 43 grains, load some up, make some sight adjustments and go hunting. Spring is almost upon us. The difference between 42.5 and 43 grains for accuracy with only two shots each is not all that relevant as reshhootng the strings could scramble the groups. Well done.
Regards Grandpamac.
@john.... many many years ago on a bench shown in recent photo by another member I conducted an experiment with my unsuppressed hard kicking .270 winchester.... there were 3 of us there that day @waimo myself and another fella from timaru..all had .270win rifles... between us we had 10 different types of ammunition... off top of my head...handloaded 110grn speer hp...130grn silvertip factory,130grn hornady reload,130grn Norma factory 140grn reload,couple of different 150s and a belmont supplied lapua 160grn mega...I fired one of each at hundred yards into target as best I COULD and the resulting group was easily covered by an old school playing card...less than 2" wide and 3" high.... so for the next 20 years I just used whatever I had on hand for bush stalking a KNEW it would connect at sub hundy yards for chest/shoulder shooting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jhon
strangely enough my .223 and the .308 I owned would do same thing...only better.
the old SMLE was notorious for different ammunition shooting to different points of impact.
the .308 was great...150s zeroed 2" high and the 180s were bang on at hundy.
two other things happened that day worth mentioning.....my scope fell to bits,the end litterally fell out... last time I bought a cheap one.
and I was trying to zero waimos rifle for him...brand new ruger m77 left handed (beautiful rifle he should never have sold) with std factory 12lb trigger...by the time I had fired 15-20 shots the dreaded flinch had set in......I couldnt make his rifle fire if I knew it was loaded... my mind overrode my will and I couldnt pull trigger..literally could not do it...unload chamber,and no trouble....load it,nope couldnt force myself to do so....
it was at that point in time I started to down load for myself...also fitted decent recoil pad.... waimo sent rifle into gunsmith and had trigger lightened....
Thanks @grandpamac I think I will now load up a few of each the 42.5 and 43 and see what groups best. I’m happy with that speed at this stage I don’t need to go chasing any more.
I agree, most people don't shoot animals far enough away to notice the difference but it can cause headaches, confusion and be potentially dangerous when developing a load which is relevant here. Using the same brass eliminates a variable, nobody needs to be chasing their tail when doing load development.
Final update. Have tweaked my load slightly and played around with seating depth. Shot my final group today and very happy with my results. Now to load up a few get my point of impact in the correct spot and go find something brown and tasty
Thanks for all your comments Attachment 207022
Great result - time to go get something for the BBQ!
