Thread: Is my batch of 8208 really slow?

Originally Posted by Allforham

Thanks grandpamac, hadn't actually come across the hornady data before. I'm right on 26gr which is .2 over their max for 55gr(although strangely under max for 60-62gr?) they're showing 3200fps, 300fps sounds like a lot to lose for 4" less barrel?

Greetings again @Allforham,
So far I have worked with 3 cartridges using BM8208. I did a comparative test in my 20 inch barrelled .308 and the Speer 125 grain TNT. My testing showed IMR8208XBR to be slightly faster than AR2206H and very close to the old AR2206. This matched the Hodgdon data pretty well. I also had data from Handloader Magazine which showed AR2206H to be a bit faster. Next was a .222 in which BM8208 fell well short of the Hodgdon data even when the 20.5 inch barrel was allowed for. Finally BM8208 was loaded with the 60 grain Hornady V-MAX. The book max of 23.6 grains only produced 2,940 fps instead of the listed 3,057 fps in spite of the 26 inch barrel. Back to Handloader Brian Pearce had tested IMR8208XBR with the 60 grain Hornady Soft point and 23.5 grains delivered 2,911 fps and his loads went up to 25.5 grains which delivered 3,148 fps. His max load for the 55 grain Nosler BT was 26 grains of IMR8208XBR for 3,251 fps in a 22 inch barrel. Out of interest 25.5 grains of the similar AR2206 produced 3,3230 fps in my 26 inch barrel.
Currently there are test loads of 25 grains of IMR8208XBR, AR2206, AR2206H and BM8208 with the 55 grain Hornady ready and I will chronograph them next range day. 2,920 does seem awfully slow, even for a 20 inch barrel so checking both your scales and chronograph against others may be a good idea.
Regards Grandpamac.

Something else to keep an eye on is the humidity level of opened powder containers and the Hg level that's happening while you load, also if you leave powder in your thrower for days.
Single base powder is nitrocellulose and absorbs water from the air.
If it's loaded @70% relative humidity it will burn slower, if it's loaded @30% RH it will burn faster.
Probably not the situation here, but worth keeping in mind.

Originally Posted by Allforham

Thanks grandpamac, hadn't actually come across the hornady data before. I'm right on 26gr which is .2 over their max for 55gr(although strangely under max for 60-62gr?) they're showing 3200fps, 300fps sounds like a lot to lose for 4" less barrel?

So you have found an anomaly in data.... Question it. Look at other sources of data...unless the 55 was mono and 62 cup n core...something is amiss. Look at other projectiles weights...what's the PATTERN??? Eg it usually/normally works out something along lines of maximum charge for heavier projectiles is middle to low for next weight projectiles down. I suggest you look at fourty five,fifty,sixty,sixty five and a weight smack bang in middle is what you SHOULD have for fifty five.

Greetings all,
Hornady, Nosler and others do not publish specific data for a particular projectile rather generic data for a group of projectiles. This can result in some data that looks wonky when some of the tougher projectiles are included in the mix. For the .223 the data needs to be compatible with port pressure for semi auto rifles and often this results with chamber pressure and velocity that are lower. Additionally some of the book data is very old.
I tend to use data from the Hodgdon/ADI sites and Handloader Magazine which I have subscribed to since 1980 and loaddata.com a more recent subscription. I also use graphs to compare the data and determine a reasonable start load to verify my components.
Keeps me out of the saloons. Grandpamac.

Originally Posted by blip

Dont think hares and goats will notice the speed. I just use the cheap bulk hornady 55gn soft points if they are accurate, the goats and hares wont notice that either

Thanks blip, yeah I'm more curious that anything about the low velocity. Certainly more than adequate for my needs. I was hoping it would shoot the 55sp well but it's not at good as I would like for the longer range hares I sometimes see. Averages around an inch at 100y and starts really opening up at 300+, I've got other rifles that do much better so I don't think it's me

Originally Posted by johnd

Something else to keep an eye on is the humidity level of opened powder containers and the Hg level that's happening while you load, also if you leave powder in your thrower for days.
Single base powder is nitrocellulose and absorbs water from the air.
If it's loaded @70% relative humidity it will burn slower, if it's loaded @30% RH it will burn faster.
Probably not the situation here, but worth keeping in mind.

I bought 2kg of it a couple of years ago off someone on here so no idea how old it is, have just started on the second bottle and it seems the same, might try a different powder once I've used it up

Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings all,
Hornady, Nosler and others do not publish specific data for a particular projectile rather generic data for a group of projectiles. This can result in some data that looks wonky when some of the tougher projectiles are included in the mix. For the .223 the data needs to be compatible with port pressure for semi auto rifles and often this results with chamber pressure and velocity that are lower. Additionally some of the book data is very old.
I tend to use data from the Hodgdon/ADI sites and Handloader Magazine which I have subscribed to since 1980 and loaddata.com a more recent subscription. I also use graphs to compare the data and determine a reasonable start load to verify my components.
Keeps me out of the saloons. Grandpamac.

Thanks grandpamac yeah it was the adi data I was going off at first. When I was playing with the 80gr targex I ended up well over their suggested max and only getting something like 2400fps from memory. Well under what their max was supposed to get anyway. Will try a different powder soon

Originally Posted by Allforham

I bought 2kg of it a couple of years ago off someone on here so no idea how old it is, have just started on the second bottle and it seems the same, might try a different powder once I've used it up

BM8208 only came out in 2010 so your powder is not old.

Originally Posted by Allforham

Thanks grandpamac yeah it was the adi data I was going off at first. When I was playing with the 80gr targex I ended up well over their suggested max and only getting something like 2400fps from memory. Well under what their max was supposed to get anyway. Will try a different powder soon

How much powder?
My 18" 223 was doing 2700+ quite easily with 75gr bullets and 8208.

Any chance your chrony is give you dud readings?

Are the results you are getting for velocity consistent with everything you are using or is it just something you've noted with the BM8208?

As a comparison I have one 20" barrel that won't produce anything like what the books say for velocity, it seems to just be a thing with that barrel. I need to run a bit more through it and another similar unit to compare - I have an idea what might be doing it but at this point it seems that I have one barrel that is around 150 to 200FPS slower than it's mate load for load. It's quite significant when you look at the numbers, just a case now of confirming why. Sometimes these things just happen that way!

Originally Posted by Beetroot

How much powder?
My 18" 223 was doing 2700+ quite easily with 75gr bullets and 8208.

Any chance your chrony is give you dud readings?

24gr. way over adi max for 80gr and slightly over for 77gr. I was wrong though it was actually more like 2550. Chrony could well be wrong but most things I've tested seem to have the drop as expected at range

Originally Posted by No.3

Are the results you are getting for velocity consistent with everything you are using or is it just something you've noted with the BM8208?

As a comparison I have one 20" barrel that won't produce anything like what the books say for velocity, it seems to just be a thing with that barrel. I need to run a bit more through it and another similar unit to compare - I have an idea what might be doing it but at this point it seems that I have one barrel that is around 150 to 200FPS slower than it's mate load for load. It's quite significant when you look at the numbers, just a case now of confirming why. Sometimes these things just happen that way!

I've only tried 8208 in the 223, will certainly try something different once I've used it up will be interesting to see

What are factory loads like? Are they on song or slow as well?

Originally Posted by No.3

What are factory loads like? Are they on song or slow as well?

Haven't actually tried any just went straight to reloads, might have a couple floating around I'll give them a try

Originally Posted by Allforham

Thanks Mathias, the rifle came with a few of the targex 80 grainers which it seems to quite like, seems overkill to be shooting mostly hares with though. Will add the 52's to the list to try.

3200 seems what most people are reporting, maybe I've got a really slow barrel. Or a dud chrono, the expected drop at range seems about right for my velocity though

Just checked my load book. 52gr Targex, 26gr IMR8208XBR and a 10 shot string produced 3249fps average. These bullets are extremely good and produce amazing accuracy in my rifle. For hares etc, that counts as they are small targets when the meterage increases.