Welcome guest, is this your first visit? Create Account now to join.
  • Login:

Welcome to the NZ Hunting and Shooting Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.

DPT Darkness


User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 47
Like Tree40Likes

Thread: Playing with some Redding Competition Shell Holders

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Location
    Okawa Hawkes Bay
    Posts
    1,607

    Playing with some Redding Competition Shell Holders

    Greetings All,
    A miserable day in HB today. Yes we do get them. Firewood collection and lawn mowing is on hold so I have been having a play with the Redding shell holder sets and comparator that my son dropped off on Sunday. For some reason for which I am unable to account I have more than one rifle in a number of calibres. To date I have been neck sizing to reduce case stretching but have become convinced that minimal full length resizing together with frequent annealing would be be a better way to go.
    First cab of the rank was the 6.5 x55. I have a Tikka and a M38, the latter with a miss matched bolt. I started by measuring the case length to datum for new Lapua cases, full length sized and fired cases for each rifle. I had suspected that my die set was oversizing the cases and this was the case. Some time ago I had adjusted the FL die so that sized cases would just chamber without resistance in my T3. This measured with a shoulder bump of 0.05mm or a little over 0.001 inches. My son does not have a shell holder kit for this head size so I will go with my die setting. The M38 chamber is about 0.12mm longer than the T3 but is only fired with light loads and the cases seldom need FL sizing so I will persist with neck sizing for this one.
    Next was the .223. Again there are two rifles a Tikka T3 and a Remington VSSF. The VSSF has a slightly shorter chamber and fired cases from this rifle will chamber in the T3 but not the other way round. I rounded up some old .223 cases that had been fired in my Brno before it was sold and worked my way down through the shell holder kit measuring the lengths as I went. It turned out that the T3 chambers cases freely with the + 0.002 inch but not the + 0.004 inch shell holder and the VSSF needs the standard shell holder. The reduction in length to datum was right around 0.05 mm or 0.002 inches so right on the button.
    Tomorrow I need to be close to the phone so it's the .308's turn.
    Regards Grandpamac.
    zimmer, keneff and CBH Australia like this.

  2. #2
    Member zimmer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Waikato
    Posts
    3,905
    Hi GPM
    I have had the Redding Competition Shell Holders set to suit the 308 family for about 15 years.
    I was a bit disappointed in them eg the +4 and +6 have only 1 thou difference between them instead of the marked 2 thou.
    And the change between the +8 and the +10 is 2 1/2 thou. Yeah, I know bugger all difference but on my Barnards I try to set around 1 - 1 1/2 thou shoulder bump.

    And of course the shell holders are not able to be used with my 6.5x55, 7.5 SR, 223R, 22H etc. And I was never going to buy several sets at the price they are.

    I went a different way and bought a set of Skip's Shims from Brownells. These are in sizes .003, .004, .005, .006, .007, .008 and .010 which you space the die with. I set up with a mid size combination setting of 2 shims and then I can go either way, increasing by a thou at a time or reducing by a thou at a time. Obviously the die lock nut has to be adjusted upwards from its original no shims setting to start with. Final combination is recorded in my reloading diary.

    Name:  Skips Shims.jpg
Views: 254
Size:  30.0 KB

    One other thing I have found is I have a very very old RCBS #3 shell holder and a relatively new RCBS #3. There is 8 thou difference in potential sizing between the 2. I have engraved old and new on these shell holders and the old one has gone into hibernation.
    rupert, 6x47 and grandpamac like this.

  3. #3
    Member Micky Duck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Geraldine
    Posts
    13,982
    ok...so Im guessing these different shell holders work by shortening the distance the resizing die can possibly push down over case????
    so the die firmly enguages the shell holder each and every time the same amount????
    and your shim rings sit in the gap somehow.....
    to increase length of case...

    so its like partial length resizing except its repeatable and very consistant????
    the die is still the same but the amount it can push down over case is changed in controlled manner......
    which also begs question,is a small base die...built shorter again so case body is pushed in more still???

  4. #4
    Member zimmer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Waikato
    Posts
    3,905
    Quote Originally Posted by Micky Duck View Post
    ok...so Im guessing these different shell holders work by shortening the distance the resizing die can possibly push down over case????
    so the die firmly enguages the shell holder each and every time the same amount????
    and your shim rings sit in the gap somehow.....
    to increase length of case...

    so its like partial length resizing except its repeatable and very consistant????
    the die is still the same but the amount it can push down over case is changed in controlled manner......
    which also begs question,is a small base die...built shorter again so case body is pushed in more still???
    The only small base die I have is for a 6mm BR and it just squeezes the area of the base in more. Shoulder bump remains the same. Have used a 308 small based die on loan and it did the same. Had a whole lot of once fired 308 brass given to me and no matter what I did it would not fit any of my 308 chambers. Had to borrow a mates SB die and once they were sized with that all was good for ever after. The chamber of the original rifle from they were fired in must have been huge.

  5. #5
    Member Micky Duck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Geraldine
    Posts
    13,982
    ok so small base die...is different completely...its got a ??narrower body/web area than std die then...have I got that right???
    zimmer likes this.

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Location
    Okawa Hawkes Bay
    Posts
    1,607
    Greetings again All,
    After my post on Tuesday I was back at my bench measuring the length to datum of .308 cases including new and fired cases from my rifles. Yes, yes this sounds OCD to many of you but there are jokes about OCD in our family for good reason. Next I measured the length to datum of some loads that my notes said I had FL sized in 2008. These measured around 0.1mm or 0.004 inches longer than the fired cases. I whipped the firing pin out of the M700 bolt and tried them in the rifle, chambered hard or not at all. Oh well at least this gave me some oversize cases to start with. Clearly I had not adjusted my sizing die for my new press. There is a point when partial FL sizing where the shoulder is moved forward due to the sizing of the case body and I had rediscovered it 30 years after the first time.
    Name:  20210929_113554.jpg
Views: 222
Size:  2.75 MB
    I fished the .308 rifles out of the gun cupboard. Sorry about the fuzzy photo, I think the light was a bit dim. A case was sized down progressively and checked in each rifle. Nothing chambered freely with the +.010 shell holder. The Bergara and M700, second and third from the front respectively, chambered freely with the +.008 shell holder. The Omark, rear, with the +.006 and the P14, front, with the +.004 shell holder.
    So there you are. I am going to need a comparator plus a Redding Competition shell holder set for the .308. For the .223 I might just borrow my sons set when I need to size cases for my T3. I considered looking for some shims as @zimmer and others use but think I will go with the shell holders.
    Regards Grandpamac.
    zimmer likes this.

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    Palmerston North
    Posts
    163
    Why not just measure the die and adjust to suit? Much cheaper.

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    The 'Naki
    Posts
    1,078
    Scuse my ignorance but how the hell do you reliably measure to 1 thou repeatedly? I can take 10 measurements with either digital or dial calipers and luckybto get the same reading sequentially. Yes I know I dont have $500 calipers but the variation seems to be more in the way/pressure with which I take the measurement than that capability of the tool itself. The slightest difference in hand pressure, motion etc gives a different reading.
    grandpamac and XR500 like this.
    I know a lot but it seems less every day...

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Christchurch
    Posts
    901
    I use spacer washers like Skip's Shims. I cutthem out from an old soft drink or beer can. The alloy of the beer/soft drink can wall is 0.004" thick.
    zimmer and grandpamac like this.

  10. #10
    Member zimmer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Waikato
    Posts
    3,905
    @grandpamac I find when I am doing that size, try in action, adjust die a bit more routine, I use a fresh case at each die adjustment change. I don't continue to use the same case. I have found in the past that using the same case and adjusting the die until I got just nice bolt closure ended up with the first unsized case being oversized. I think it has something to do with springback when only making small die adjustments.
    I anneal every firing now so next time I do a die setup I may not experience the same issue if using the same case to set up.
    Puffin, flock and grandpamac like this.

  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Location
    Okawa Hawkes Bay
    Posts
    1,607
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnetite View Post
    Why not just measure the die and adjust to suit? Much cheaper.
    Greetings @Magnetite,
    Definitely an option which I use for my 6.5 x 55. For multiple rifles like my .308's it becomes tiresome. Even 1/16th of a turn of the die is over 0.1mm or .004 inches. I guess I could measure the distance from the bottom of the die to the lock ring, which I think is what you are talking about, but this still leaves some variability in the press linkages and I do like the die making solid contact with the shell holder. In my younger cash strapped days I would have gone with setting the die up, as I have with the 6.5, but now I am inclined to the simpler but more expensive solution. Thanks for your reply.
    Regards Grandpamac.
    Micky Duck and Magnetite like this.

  12. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    Christchurch
    Posts
    1,034
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnetite View Post
    Why not just measure the die and adjust to suit? Much cheaper.
    Ease. You can follow the die instructions (touching the shell holder + a quarter turn or whatever) and all you need to do to get that minimal shoulder bump is select the appropriate shell holder. If you have two or more rifles of the same chambering and different length chambers, you don't need to fuck around with the die each time, you just swap shell holders. Transferability into other presses too - you could take your die and shell holder to the range and use the equipment in the reloading room there without needing to piss about setting the die up again.
    GWH, zimmer, Micky Duck and 1 others like this.
    Resident 6.5 Grendel aficionado.

  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Location
    Okawa Hawkes Bay
    Posts
    1,607
    Quote Originally Posted by Jhon View Post
    Scuse my ignorance but how the hell do you reliably measure to 1 thou repeatedly? I can take 10 measurements with either digital or dial calipers and luckybto get the same reading sequentially. Yes I know I dont have $500 calipers but the variation seems to be more in the way/pressure with which I take the measurement than that capability of the tool itself. The slightest difference in hand pressure, motion etc gives a different reading.
    Greetings @Jhon,
    I think that the answer in my case is soft draughtsman's hands. You are right it does take feel to get the same pressure and hence reading but I can get repeatable readings down to about .025mm or a little less. Callipers need to be square to the item being measured or errors will result.
    Regards Grandpamac.
    Jhon likes this.

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Location
    Okawa Hawkes Bay
    Posts
    1,607
    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    @grandpamac I find when I am doing that size, try in action, adjust die a bit more routine, I use a fresh case at each die adjustment change. I don't continue to use the same case. I have found in the past that using the same case and adjusting the die until I got just nice bolt closure ended up with the first unsized case being oversized. I think it has something to do with springback when only making small die adjustments.
    I anneal every firing now so next time I do a die setup I may not experience the same issue if using the same case to set up.
    Thanks for the tip @zimmer.
    I will check as I size the balance of my oversize cases.
    Regards Grandpamac.

  15. #15
    Member zimmer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Waikato
    Posts
    3,905
    Quote Originally Posted by grandpamac View Post
    Thanks for the tip @zimmer.
    I will check as I size the balance of my oversize cases.
    Regards Grandpamac.
    You may not have the same issue. I had it happen and then adopted the fresh case process going forward.

 

 

Similar Threads

  1. WTB: Old Lee threaded shell holders
    By Jhon in forum Buy, Sell or Swap
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 21-05-2021, 12:44 PM
  2. WTB: 308 Redding competition micrometer die set
    By robh500 in forum Buy, Sell or Swap
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 17-09-2020, 09:53 PM
  3. Shell holders
    By cameronjackwhite in forum Reloading and Ballistics
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 06-03-2019, 11:50 PM
  4. FS: 308 Win Redding Competition 3 die set.
    By GWH in forum Buy, Sell or Swap
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 14-05-2018, 10:10 PM
  5. WTS shell holders
    By Toby in forum Buy, Sell or Swap
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 12-09-2015, 03:30 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Welcome to NZ Hunting and Shooting Forums! We see you're new here, or arn't logged in. Create an account, and Login for full access including our FREE BUY and SELL section Register NOW!!