Problematic 6mm Remington

My 6mm Remington Mauser is proving problematic...
(This may be more than a reloading issue, but I am looking into all possibilities.)
- I had the barrel fitted (a used parker hale barrel) by the gunsmith, who also bedded the rifle, and declared it to be all good.
- Bought some PPU 6mm Rem (100gr) and attempted to zero it. 10-12" groups!
- If I have measured the twist correctly it is 1-10"
- Scope is not loose. Confident scope is not damaged (Leupold VX1 in exc cond)
- On the possibility that the 100gr projectiles were just not suitable for that bore I tried the following loads with the following results :

43gr Win760, 90gr ELDX (Top pic)
and 44gr Win 760, 80gr Speer flat base SP
Attachment 194208
Attachment 194209

As you can see, terrible! I'm sure I pulled the odd one, but I don't shoot this badly!

Are there any glaring possibilities of this being an ammunition issue?

The other possibility is the stock. The forewood is very thin, and not completely symmetrical. A small part of the forewood is just very lightly touching the side of the barrel (barely enough to hold a piece of paper), but its not far from the chamber end where the barrel is heavier. Surely that is not causing such wild groups? But I will take some sandpaper to it if there are no obvious options with the reloading side.

Send forth ye opinions

Loose mounts maybe. Swap another scope to see if the same happens. Loads look OK.

if your not a million miles from gunsmith...take it back for them to double check stuff...THEY WILL WANT TO.... no one wants something they have done to fail. scope,scope rings,scope bases, action screws...surprised as heck if you got gunsmith to bed rifle the stock is as close as you saying it is...dead simple to add free float when doing the bedding,you just pack barrel up a fly shit so it stays up fly shit afterwards when everything is set.
in guessing no open sights on barrel??? cause yo ushould be able to do better with irons...to check its not optic issue... swap out scope to something else you dont need to zero it...just check if will group,doesnt matter if 6" left and move into 50 yards,if group still sucks it will still show up.
check mag box isnt binding....but gunny will do this.....

Bulges in the barrel being a used barrel? Had a .243 that got handed to me a while back. Could get a three shot cloverleaf every fourth group or so, just enough to keep you thinking it's got potential...

Gave it a major clean and decopper, and then inspected the barrel really closely and that's how I found it was bulged about 6" back from the muzzle - just enough to allow the proj to 'skip' and reingage the rifling I think was the thing we decided was going on. It wasn't readily noticeable, but enough to go for minute of door instead of minute of deer...

Try a 100gr pill. The pills you are using are for faster twist . MY 2C.

Are you certain it is a 6mm barrel? Check to see if a projectile fits nicely in to the muzzle with no wiggle.

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Originally Posted by TeRei

Try a 100gr pill. The pills you are using are for faster twist . MY 2C.

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Originally Posted by -BW-

- Bought some PPU 6mm Rem (100gr) and attempted to zero it. 10-12" groups!

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Tried that first.

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Originally Posted by Husky1600

Are you certain it is a 6mm barrel? Check to see if a projectile fits nicely in to the muzzle with no wiggle.

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Its a 6mm Remington, as stamped on the barrel

take it apart...and carefully look at mag box..make sure its sitting on bottom metal and not twisting when it goes back together...make sure there is no crap in below recoil lug...and carefully do screws up firmly....
it should not shoot that badly....and if gunsmith said it looks ok....it should be ok......I mean most worn out .303 BRITS WILL DO BETTER than that,there is something really out of whack here.

Did your 'smith recrown the secondhand barrel when he fitted it?

Only takes a slight ding in the crown to cause results like this. Ask me how I know!

My 75 Finnlight has always shot really well and then one day recently it just stopped shooting good groups, I'm not talking 10", but up around 4" was typical. I went through a lot of reloads trying to figure it out.
It turned out the plastic stock had warped enough to make the front bedding bind up on the action, I had to remove 15 thou from the side of the stock to get clearance back. I ended up taking it all out and re bedding, it shoots nice little groups again.
If you loosen the action screws and carefully tighten them, you should have about a 1/4 turn take up on the screws. If you have much more than that then your bedding is definitely a candidate for a closer look.

Let us know when you figure out what it was.

Only change one thing at a time and fire 3 shot groups.

It is something pretty severe, so will be something simple.

My suggestions are:
Loose mount bases on action.
Wrong size rings or grip to the base.
Mag box not seated properly so you tighten up the bedding screws but its not touching the bedding, only springy slidey metal but feels firm to the touch.

the only time ive had a 98 shoot like that is when i fitted a boyd stock and didnt think it needed the steel crossbolt once i bored a hole and fitted it (and a ss pillar for the rear action bolt she came right.....im an amateur tho one of the earlier posts is probably more likely......

Greetings,
Something not mentioned is one of the action screws bottoming out before the action is fully bedded in the stock. This could be the screws being too long or the threaded portion is too short. It sounds asthough you have a bitza rifle and some of the bits may not firt that well. Also relieve the forewood so it is clear of the barrel. If there is not enough wood to do this then rebedding or a new stock may be in order. Grouping that bad is often due to poor stock fit or the magazine well binding as mentioned above. My iron sighted .303 shoots better than that even with 70 plus year old eyes. Lastly get someone else to shoot the rifle and watch you shoot it, just to make sure it's a rifle problem.
Regards Grandpamac.

too many moving parts without having a look

I have had this with too long action screws bottoming out but not squeezing the stock, just had to shorten the screws

you wouldnt believe how many "yeah this is a great scope Iv never had a problem with it" scopes turn out to be the problem, something just comes loose inside. this is what I think is the issue personally

loose rings or rings set up incorrectly is very common

rocking in the stock usually doesn't cause this bad a group

try an 80gr flat based soft point, 6mm rem is old school and probably has a slow twist to use varmit weight bullets if its 10 twist or slower 100gr get very on the edge of stability, surprising theres no keyholes

its basically just an obscure 243w so maybe 2209/2208 would be a better fit?

Iv seen 3 inch groups from an incorrect mag box installation too
the mag box should not bind between the bottom metal and action
it should be able to wiggle around
I cant recommend someone modify things inside guns, but id take a few mm off the bottom of the mag box if its tight in there

Maybe to check the mag box idea, you can fire it single shot style with no mag box?

where is the OP???? we are all sitting on edge of seats and pulling our hair out trying to figure this out....and they have gone all silent on us......

Maybe he left his phone at home and went hunting

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

where is the OP???? we are all sitting on edge of seats and pulling our hair out trying to figure this out....and they have gone all silent on us......

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you have hair to pull out????? not a commodity to be playing loose and free with best to leave it where it is or one day you will look in the mirror and see homer simpson......

I do still have SOME hair...there is more below my nose than above it these days.....
these rifle "puzzles" are a great part of the forum......we are all trying to solve the riddle and when it does work...life just feels better somehow.

@-BW- if you want I can take an independent look at it. I’m reasonably local to you and tinker making stocks and have done many a bedding job. There’s every chance the issue is something relatively simple.

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

where is the OP???? we are all sitting on edge of seats and pulling our hair out trying to figure this out....and they have gone all silent on us......

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Apologies... had the week off and went on holiday to Nelson ��
Will be home tomorrow and will take the rifle apart and start investigating.

Following with interest. I've got a 6 Rem with accuracy issues Im looking at currently.

Bedding was beautifully done, but wrong.
2. The bedding material I discovered has gone soft(rubbery feel) when I removed it.
3. A pressure point under the barrel at the front tip of the stock.
4. Barrel was touching the stock in the barrel channel.
5. Trigger was rusty and very hard
6. I suspect the ammo might also be contributing.

Hope you sort yours out. Will hollar if I find anything - owner indicated he might wanna have it turned into a 220 Swift

(As we have gone off topic for reloading.. mods feel free to put this somewhere more relevant...)


Ok I think the problem has been somewhat identified...

I took up Hunter_Nick 's generous offer to have a close look at the rifle. After inspecting the concentricity of the brass and dismissing the chamber as a potential issue, we removed the bottom metal/trigger guard.

The front tang of the bottom metal has a slight but noticeable bend, so that the front lug on the tang which screws into the forward lug of the receiver, is tilting forward. So.. once the front screw is in place, the bottom metal does not sit flush with the stock or the receiver, the rear part of the trigger guard hangs down about 3/4" if you had the rifle upright. Once the rear screw is tightened, this is obviously placing some twisting tension on the front of the receiver.
My word picture here is probably confusing, I'll get photo to make it clearer.

Anyway, Nick surmised that a small metal shim in the front might help relieve some of the twisting tension, at least to test the theory before I tried to bend things back into shape.

I fired 5 rounds with the shim in place, and there was a significant improvement. A 6" or so group in the same area.. as opposed to the 10-12" of shotgun scatter it performed before.
I then decided to just remove the rear bolt entirely and shoot it with the trigger guard hanging down at the back. It shot 3 rounds in 1" and 2 flyers about 4" away.

I'm now 100% convinced the misaligned trigger guard is to blame, and I will commence trying to tweak it straight.. Pics to come..

Pheww . I was a bit worried I'd given you a dud barrel!