Sounds like an ar would be a handy tool. Where do these geese roost or do they roost? Would catching up with them that way get a few more?
Sounds like an ar would be a handy tool. Where do these geese roost or do they roost? Would catching up with them that way get a few more?
@blip YES! A semi would be handy!
Re Roosting. One farmer told me, "They roost in the branches of those pine trees," pointing up at the top of the highest ridge.
I've never seen geese in the branches of trees, but would be interested if others have....
At night the seem to congregate in large numbers on the ground of on ponds/lakes.
Took this photo last night on Rimu Road, Paraparaumu, opposite PacNSave and right beside the Kapiti Coast District Council offices.
Tricky to get a safe angle with solid background. There is a public walking/cycling pathway around the opposite side to the road. Not impossible though...Attachment 254496
There's a pic on the forum shooting at nite and the projectile doing a Rick O Shay, a ghillie suit and a silenced air rifle strategically placed before dark is your friend.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Shields
That's the attraction of a shotgun... background/backstop becomes much less important. Semiauto...the wee17rimfire MIGHT be worth borrowing one to try??
Looks dodgy to me.
Yes I'm sure you're correct Hugh. I was taught from the get-go by father and grandfather to shoot off the shoulder once I could hold the rifle. At 4 I was on the ground prone..Havnt made a habit of that since lol. I would never claim to be a crack shot, but I've put plenty of meat on the table, mostly small game. My father was deadly and held small bore records as an airforce Cadet for many years. I learned with his Slazenger Lithgow Model 12 and still have it. Back in the day we never ever thought to use a rest of any kind. Beneath us I guess but really it never entered our minds you would shoot off anything other than your shoulder. Nowadays I'll grab any rest I can if time permits.. where I stuff up offhand is when I have time to think about it. Otherwise I just do it and usually connect. Muscle memory does it and that comes from what you describe. Plenty of plinking. Headshot on a hare with 22Hornet at 80m or bodyshot on a rabbit out to 100 odd is really my limit these days. But bigger animals out to 200 on the shoulder is not a problem. Have fun down there!Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Shields
So one accuracy hack for the 22 hornet , is use pistol primers ( not rifle primers ) , seems to be better for the small case , this is a hack most older shooters know about .
I also use a Lee crimp die as well .
I just use fed sr primers. Works in my hornets
Yes definitely on the Pistol primers. Go easy on the Lee FCD tho. I use one also but a very light crimp for uniformity across mixed brass. Yes I know sticking to one brand would be good but beggars etc etc. Those case mouths are super thin. Too heavy a crimp not only damages the brass but can also see the brass loose its tension grip on the bullet I think. Counter-intuitive but try it on a sacrificial piece and I think you'll see what I mean. I use about half the full crimp possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisF
Also crimp twice, turning shell half turn for 2nd pass. The collet produces little gathers in the brass and it seems that two passes gives a more uniform crimp.and perhaps better concentricity.
Me too, no need for pistol primers if you lightly crimp I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by blip
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I wouldn't have a clue who to talk to from KCDC unfortunately sorry @Hugh Shields.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Shields
There is another small 'lake' with a grass patch that 10-20 of them regularly park up on on dusk that has a safe shooting corridor with a hill and pine trees as the a backdrop.
Attachment 255122
Yeah , Naaa ,
Almost , so I think its important to ONLY crimp once on the Lee Crimp die , donot rotate the case 180 degrees and crimp for second time , I feel it was not made to be used like that , it crimps in 3 places around the circumference , and thats IT .
So you end up with 3 areas crimped and 3 areas not crimped , if that makes sense .
But yes , when say bullet seating , YES cycle the press twice and in between rotate the case 180 degrees , as I feel this gives you less runout , again thats a OLD school trick .
As to powder for the Hornet , I use Lil gun , 13.0gr over a 40gr vmax bullet , get 3000fps and accurate in my rifle .
Cheers Chris
P.S. I use CCI pistol primer
Quick update on the optimal goose load.
I've done about 10 or 12 batches so far, with different projectiles, powders, primers and brass.
The best change I've done is from ADI AR2207 to AR2205. Noticeable faster and probably grouping better.
Changed from CCI 4OO Primers to Remington Match. They seem good.
Long list of projectiles, both hollow point and soft points. Round "Hornet" and pointy spire. No Ballistic Tip or VMAX, I'm not going there. Explanation, the Hornet was designed to shoot round or Semi pointed projectiles, so I'm sticking with that.
Some projectiles I've found too hard and not expanding enough.
Most I've used have given consistent one shot kills, when placed correctly.
The last two batches I've loaded to 9.8grn ADI AR2205 which is going well. I'm thinking some early loads weren't expanding well because they were simply going too SLOW!
Last two batches projectiles were, Hornady 45grn #2230 SP and Speer 45grn #1210, both labeled "Hornet." Both really good results in terms of grouping and terminal results.
I don't own a chronograph, so I tested velocity on a rabbitonagragh. The exit hole was big enough and since the liver was having an out of body experience, I think the velocity is about right:
Attachment 256608
Grouping seemed to be OK too. After I shot this unlucky bugger I thought, "Shit that's a long way! I wonder how far that is!?" So I paced it out in good strides, 182 paces:
Attachment 256609
Attachment 256610
Which just goes to show, we are all capable of pulling off a long range fluke shot every now and then!
But more scientific is this 27mm group at 100m. The high one was a flyer, which is why we need 5 shot groups. This is with a thermal imaging scope. I don't rate thermals as accurate as a good quality daylight scope, simply because of blur, electronic "flicker" and the hot bullet holes further complicating the heat image. But, reasonably happy:
Attachment 256611
Back on Canada Goose, I've shot bugger all! Still less than 100! Basically I'm get 5 or 6 out of a mob of 20 or 30, before they bugger off. Some places I've shot at the geese have NEVER returned, so I'm constantly trying to find new places. If you know where they are hiding in Kapiti, please let me now the address l. I'll try to obtain permission from the property owners. So far both Greater Wellington Regional Council and Kapiti Coast District Council, and Transit have declined me access to public land. DOC has, or is about to issue me a permit for some of their land.
@Marty Henry @Micky Duck @SmokeyJason
Progress is progress. Councils have a sucky attitude at times.best guess is they want it done by "thier certified" contractors....
I have a friend with a k hornet that gives him no end of problems, split cases in fire forming, split new shoulders after 2 or 3 reloads, and stuff like that. When it goes it goes when it doesn't he goes. He won't like this thread if I show it to him.
@Marty Henry
I don't know much about the K-Hornet, other than it has an angled shoulder to stop the cases stretching, a bigger powder capacity and therefore higher velocity (and presumably higher pressure. Until recently I didn't even know there was such a thing as a K. What I have learnt about the K is through this forum and YouTube.
What I do know about brass is it is both malleable and ductile, which means it can be both easily shape, bent and stretched. The process of fire forming a standard 22 Hornet to K is going to; reshape, bend and stretch the brass. Logically that would make the brass thinner and therefore more likely to split around the neck. No surprises there. It's just physics and metal fatigue.
I love the quote, "Victory loves preparation!" So unless your mate is intentionally setting self up to fail, this is what is suggest;
- Dump or sell the "Onc fired," formed brass
- Buy some brand new , high quality brass, Norms, Sako, Remington (if there is such a thing?)
- Don't buy cheap shitty brass, unless you want cheap shitty results
- Work up a good, efficient, minimal load which groups well and provides good terminal results
- Avoid HOT, maximum loads, they will shorten brass life, and may not be as accurate, or consistent as a mid-weight load. I think some reloaders set themselves up to fail by chasing the BIGGEST compressed powder charge that they can squeeze into the case. Then to conversation goes, "Look at me I'm getting 10,000 feet per second out of my Hornet, but the cases are splitting, the primers are popping, I've buggered the face of my bolt and I have to knock each case out with my cleaning rod!? Do you think I'm loading them to hot!?" No shit Sherlock!
Victory loves preparation, so follow the process set out in the Good Book and don't skip bits.
A lot of people say reloading Hornet is hard and fiddle, the cases deform and wha, wha, wha.... I find it easy and enjoyable. But I also spend a lot of time prepping my cases. I think the inside neck chamfer is critical, as is clean out the flash hole every single time!!!
A lot of people talk about standard 22 Hornet milk bottle shape stretching a lot with firing. I check and see trim every case to 1.393 and have been surprised to find some are not stretching at all. Again use quality brass.
Of all the cases I've fired, resized and reloaded I think I might find 5 in 100, or perhaps only 3 in 100 split or can't be reused. Much of my brass is only on second or third reload, but one standard Hornet owner on this forum reckons he gets 18 or 20 reloads out of a case, so if your mate is getting rapid, repeat splitting, they need to rethink their processes.
On closing I would like to put these questions to K HORNET owners and reloaders;
- Do you use fire formed brass or new factory cases?
- Does fire formed brass spot more often?
- Best brand for longevity?
- Is cheap brass as good or better than expensive brass?
- do you have problems with the neck splitting or head separation?
- What's you bet load?
- Are you running HOT - MEDIUM - COLD loads?
- How many reloads are you get from each case?
Just started down the k hornet road. bought a reamer and so far have reamed one of my hornets. Accuracy seems the same I dont go for max loads in my hornets, I'm happy with an accurate load. I haven't shot it enough to get any splits yet but I anneal my brass. What I would like is a lee collet die for the k, a standard hornet die doesn't work and I haven't looked into seeing if my hornet one can be modified. I'm not actually expecting the brass to last long as it is probably on its 4th or 5th loading for that rifle already.
This week I got to velocity and terminal check my last batch of Hornet loads: ADI AR2205 9.8grn. Sierra Varminter/Hornet #1200 40grn SP. I didn't shoot a cardboard target too assess grouping, just carried on from the previous load #1210 45grn SP with same powder charge. Surprisingly I hit more than I missed so POI must have been close to the same. That was just lazy prep and lack of time.
I ran a few through the rabbitonagraph velocity checker and was pretty happy with the results:
Attachment 257301
Then I ran one round through the possumonagraph:
Attachment 257302
Attachment 257303
The possum was 50 or 60 metres, standing up on the ground, looking the wrong way.
I'm pretty happy with these little 40grns and reckon they might become my go to.
Be interesting to see how they go on goats....
Velocity is hard to guess!? The various reloading manuals, (for similar or equivalent Brand powders) show:
- ADI AR2205 2421 - 2567ftps
- HORNADY 2400 - 2500 OR 2600 - 2700
- Sierra 2100 - 2300
- Speer 2639 - 2782
So it's really anybodies guess?
Is the NZHS Forum north island chronograph anywhere near Wellington/Kapiti? I wouldn't mind doing a more scientific velocity check? @SmokeyJason @Micky Duck
@Marty Henry how's your K mate getting on sorting out processes?
Also @blip how are you getting on with your K?
I just ran your load threw quickload with a 22" rifle barrel,
40gr Serria HP, with 9.8gr is 2410 fps @ 31600psi.
45 gr speer Sp with 9.8gr is 2362fps @ 34600psi,
And as a hornet owner, your rabbitograph damage, isn't as tore up, as mine tend to be,
I run 11.5 gr of littlegun with a SPP primer CCI500, under everything, 40 v-max and 45, 46 gr Speer, at about 43000psi and 2900 for speed. this is possibly a bit hot for the 45gr, or 3.5gr trail boss, with the 46gr for a quite load, about 1500fps.
there is room for improvement on your loads if you want to run a bit faster and flatter.
10.5gr 2205, will take you to about 2600, at 39000psi, with a 40gr Serria Hp.
but a powder change to littlegun, Cfe blackout, N120, 4227 will likely give you 3-500 more on speed.
Littlegun really ups the performance in the .22 Hornet, quite a lot of info online if you search, lots running 12gr, but i think this is a bit hot,
I have just received a box of 40gr Fox copper bullets, to try in my Hornet, I've loaded 6 with my std load,
Don't be lazy Hugh, get a chrono. Must be one a local can lend for the day?
Yeh, id like one. But problem with chronograph is like a few I would only use it once every 3-4 years. And last I looked not cheap.Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyJason
In any case, if a load shoots well and stuff is falling over, does it matter? Long range would be different I guess.
@Hugh Shields havnt had much of a chance to play with it. Its no worse than the hornet only put 40 rounds through it so far
The primary purpose of the K chamber was to prolong the life of hornet brass.
If this is not happening I’d look at my brass history and management.
With a regular chamber I find collet dies and a Lee crimper achieve the same outcome.
Lill gun is the go if you can find some. Great accuracy and speed combined.
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@Hugh Shields
Quote Southernman:
there is room for improvement on your loads if you want to run a bit faster and flatter.
10.5gr 2205, will take you to about 2600, at 39000psi, with a 40gr Serria Hp.
but a powder change to littlegun, Cfe blackout, N120, 4227 will likely give you 3-500 more on speed.
Got an old full tin of 4227 I’ve had forever or a bit longer. Yours free, no charge,
If ya want. Pickup Paraparaumu (brothers place) seeing you float around there a bit.
Cheers MuttonGuts
Awesome @Muttonguts thanks very much. Please txt me 021 9888 41 when the planets are aligned and I'll pickup.
This is the sort of support like minded people give on this Forum.
I'll be up Reikorangi this week and promise I won't put it on TradeMe at massive profit! LOL
[QUOTE=Hugh Shields;
This is the sort of support like minded people give on this Forum.
I'll be up Reikorangi this week and promise I won't put it on TradeMe at massive profit! LOL[/QUOTE]
Good to see someone else gets it. If I thought for one minute you’d go
the TM way I wouldn’t have offered
Cheers MG
Good powder. Let us know how it performs for yaQuote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Shields
@Jhon Will do! Looking forward to trying another Brand.
The curse of the .22 Hornet,
Yesterdays case separation, I've had 4 now, This brass is about 8-9 times fired, Note the other unfired brass, has started to distort, so its going once fired, I test them with a seal pick, on the hornet i cant feel any lip, the just rupture, normally at an inconvenient time, then its home to stuff a patch, in the neck of the brass, and a small poor of molten lead.
Attachment 257405
There was one on here at buy sell sea for about a Hundy. Mines an el cheapie, been doing service for a long time now, there's just no excuse, no need the have the latest creedrich.
[QUOTE=southernman;1605430]The curse of the .22 Hornet,
Yesterdays case separation, I've had 4 now, This brass is about 8-9 times fired, Note the other unfired brass, has started to distort, so its going once fired, I test them with a seal pick, on the hornet i cant feel any lip, the just rupture, normally at an inconvenient time, then its home to stuff a patch, in the neck of the brass, and a small poor of molten lead.
I once had the misfortune to fire a triple two shell in my 223 resulting in all sorts of shit and gases flying around and a pair of moderately to heavily soiled knickers. My gunsmith mate had a case separation removal tool which he got from Brownells Aussie. We simply inserted the tool into the 223 chamber and the remains of the 222 brass closed the bolt and on opening the tool came out along with the remains of the trebley brass. Easy peasy snotty sneezy. I think the tools are calibre specific available only in 5.6 and 308 catering for the AR twats. But I suspect a smarty-pants on a lathe could modify the rim to take other 224 and 30 calibre cartridges.
Cheers MG
Attachment 257429
looks easy enough to make for any caliber
I get a few in my whelen. A rats tail file is what I use. Just poke it up the breech , twist it to grab the brass and out it comes. I’ve never had one stuck tight.
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Far out that's an interesting thread on head separation. I don't think I've ever had that happen in Hornet or triple duce? Only in 30.06 which I don't own anymore.
It's a goog rainy, storming day here in Wellington, ideal for reloading!
Stage one: Empty my random bucket and sort by Brand and primer colour.
My wife loves it when I sit at the kitchen bench sorting brass. We were chatting away about reloading (or at least I was chatting, and I thought Helen was engaged until) "Christ I've had gutsful of this! I'm going to go and clean the bathroom, it's more interesting!" Frrrrck! It's hard to find the perfect woman!
Attachment 257433
Far out that's an interesting thread on head separation. I don't think I've ever had that happen in Hornet or triple duce? Only in 30.06 which I don't own anymore.
It's a good rainy, storming day here in Wellington, ideal for reloading!
Stage one: Empty my random bucket and sort by Brand and primer colour.
My wife loves it when I sit at the kitchen bench sorting brass. We were chatting away about reloading (or at least I was chatting, and I thought Helen was engaged until) "Christ I've had gutsful of this! I'm going to go and clean the bathroom, it's more interesting!" Frrrrck! It's hard to find the perfect woman!
Attachment 257433
Attachment 257434
you wont find the perfect woman, I married her.... Ive always noticed on gun forums that one of the few threads that stays on course on them are 22 hornet threads :thumbsup:
Hugh... While you have your case head in attachment in the drill for checking length and trimming....grab a new Scotch Brite cloth and hold against those dirty cases.brings them back to shiney in no time at all. If you don't have the LEE case trimmer set. Just buy one...soo plurry easy to use.
So like I said earlier, perfect weather for reloading!
So I set myself the objective of cleaning, tumbling, FL resizing and depriming all the 22 Hornet cases I had lying around.
In total I've processed 737 cases; 146 Winchester, 240 Remington, 69 Norma, 282 Hornady.
Part of the motivation was to answer the question, "How many split or head separation case do you get?" This follows on from the above thread.
The answer is, out 737 cases I found SIX with neck splits and ZERO head separation (I didn't check inside any cases with the bent paper clip).
Brand of the six split case: 5 Remington, 1 Winchester.
I expected the Winchester to be the split, and only split, because some of that brass dates back to 1988 when I bought my first Hornet.
I've said this before, I don't chase the holy grail of 3000 plus feet per second. I don't load to maximum.
My only grail is a thumb sized group at 150m and instantaneous clean kills. I don't want to unzip a rabbit from it's arse to it's brisket, because I want to be able to eat the livers and kidneys, so I don't want to cover those in shit! To me a good projectile/load combination makes a neat entry hole and an exit hole about the size of your thumb or a golf ball.
If you fellas are getting a lot of splits and head separation, you need to revist you processes, check that your rifle chamber isn't stuffed, and stop chasing maximum.
On process. This weekend I started washing fired cases in boiling water, with a dollop of dish washing liquid. I don't wash each individual case, just slosh them around in a bowl. Reason being, I read, perhaps on this forum, that the troops used boiling water pouring down the barrel to remove powder foiling. I now know from experience that the water in the bowl turns dark grey, so it is obviously dissolve powder residual. Then I stand them in a grate, vertically to drain and dry over the fan heater. Once dry they going into the walnut tumbler. Interestingly the cases cleaned with boiling water, go through the FL resizing die more smoothly and easier. Perhaps with the neck clean of powder residual the neck sizing ball isn't getting stuck.
Some people say cleanliness is next to Godliness, but I reckon cleanliness is next to accuracy.
Attachment 257516
I just run cases for about 3-5 minutes in a cheap ultrasonic cleaner after depriming.
About 75% water 25% vinegar plus a squirt of dish washing liquid. Come out clean, but not shiny.
Maybe your hot water is doing a gentle anneal??? After all a round in dishwasher will poke the temper of a good knife.... And I agree trying for last fps is pointless.lots of reloading manuals tell us that very thing.
