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Got a bit of a odd one here
So.
My understanding is cordite is like spaghetti sticks.
Which is what 303 mark 7 ball used for its powder.
I know of someone who is wanting to load Shaved cordite for 303 using a 174gr projectile.
Everything I've heard is saying this is not a wise move.
Could anyone shed light on this for me please ?
why on earth would you bother?????
trying to regulate how much you are using would be nightmare,and finding data even more so....case full of trailboss would be safer option...heck case full of black powder would PROBABLY be safer...and I wouldnt be in any hurry to try that either....
A full bundle out of a three foot shell certainly burns well, any more than that and the rubber dinghy gets melted as you run into the sea to escape the heat.
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He might be thinking that the powder in some of the last 303 batches is Cordite instead of gun powder.
I have never seen or heard of "flaked Cordite"
Sheesh I'd like to see how that turns out, from about 100 metres away....Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock river arms hunter
Mk7z, wra mk 7 and fn bren ammo I have pulled all use a single base nitrocellulose granular powder not cordite. I wonder if this is what he is referring to.
Cordite was double based nitrocellulose, nitroglycerin and a small amount of Vaseline.
The largest sticks of cordite extruded for naval guns were 2 and 3 inches in diameter, these were also used as rocket motors for the 2 and 3 inch rockets for aircraft and land mattress weapons.
Ill have some of that 2" stuff please @Marty Henry
I just have concerns as to how safe it is is the main reason for the post.
It's kinda one those things where why on earth would you do that for all that fuss etc etc?
The cordite I’ve seen in big shells, was 3mm diameter strands, 600mm long bundled together in 100 diameter bundle
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Never heard of this either but if he wants to burn the throat out in his rifle then he should use cordite.
Not something however to muck around with.
You'd have to change ya name to 50mm then :)
I pulled some long pasta looking bits out of an old 303 cartridge about 40 years ago and gave it the match. Thought it might burn like a fuse but went WOOSH, lucky I knew enough then not to get too silly with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 40mm
Clickbangs is a product of Cordite being slow to ignite, and having aged and gone a bit slower still to ignite. WHEN it ignites it is a HOT powder to the extent of severely eroding barrel throats. Nitrocellulose with quite high nitroglycerin content, and a bit of vaseline phlegmatiser. Flaking Cordite sticks (see my avatar) so as to increase the Cordite's surface area (by a factor of 10x? 20x?? more??) sounds dangerous, as in exploding chamber dangerous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock river arms hunter
If you must load 174grain bullets in .303 and you have Cordite on hand, why not just get some tweezers and load the Cordite sticks one by one? But use magnum primers.
Giz....Quote:
Originally Posted by hamsav
Will you part with it or some of it?
And when I first read the title of this thread, I thought @Cordite was going to get a Brazilian...
Greetings all,
Assuming Shaved cordite means saved cordite using it is a very bad idea. The cordite is likely well over 60 years old and contains nitroglicerine not something to mess with. It is a highly erosive propellant which would be very hard on todays narrow land barrels. You will not be able to duplicate the standard charge which was loaded befroe the case was shaped. Cordite varied from batch to batch even when new. There is no handloading data. If it is chopped cordite that was used in some pistol cartridges it is even worse. Just don't even consider it.
Regards Grandpamac.
Cordite has a controlled burning rate that is reliant upon it remaining in strands. The moment it is chopped or shaved then the burning rate will increase dramatically with disastrous consequences. It is not a good small arms propellant as it is very erosive and has not been used in rifle ammo for over 50 years. As others have mentioned it is nitro-glycerine based. Don't be fool, buy some modern rifle powder! Although there is a bit of a shortage at present there is still a wide selection of powders available that are suitable.
As above from many logical posts.
But DO NOT throw the stuff away.
I will safely dispose of it for a low fee.
Hey @grandpamacQuote:
Originally Posted by grandpamac
Every feeling I had about this idea of someone who I know about doing this was bang on so to speak.
I've spoken to a few other more experienced people about it and they gave very similar answers.
Which backs up my gut feeling.
That was the original loading with the 215 grain bullet. A compressed pellet of black powder that filled the case to the shoulder, 71.5 grains of RFG2 with a small hole through the centre for the primer flash, giving 1830 feet per second.Quote:
Originally Posted by mimms2
The .303/72 sounds good! (<:Quote:
Originally Posted by gundoc
A lot of powders have nitroglycerin in them, Cordite had a fair amount. The earliest Cordite Mk 1 had these proportions: 58% nitroglycerin, 37% guncotton (nitrocellulose) and 5% petroleum jelly. Basically gelignite with vaseline added to slow it down!Quote:
Originally Posted by hamsav
This was quickly found to be super erosive and the regular Cordite MD ("modified") we know now from old rifle cartridges made since the 2nd Boer was was made with "only" 30% nitroglycerine 65% guncotton and 5% petroleum jelly. Even so, in the book Sniping in France, there is an observation that a SMLE sniper rifle was past its best accuracy once it had fired 800 rounds from new. Imagine what precision war horses we'd all own now if they had adopted a cool-burning powder from the start.
I was aware of that.......and hoped you fellas would see where I headed with comment.....almost tempted to find and old 3o just for using the black smelly stuff....Quote:
Originally Posted by mimms2
Note that it was a 'compressed pellet' (ie: one solid shaped pellet of powder). It would have been formed in a press in a blast protected building with brass or wood dies to avoid sparks. The finished pellets would then be taken to the loading room in smallish batches to avoid unpleasant accidents.Quote:
Originally Posted by mimms2
Explains why no-one is on record for managing to re-charge a .303 case with 71.5 grains of BP.Quote:
Originally Posted by gundoc
Have reflected on this, only way I'd re-use the growing jar of it on my desk would be laying it out on a tray somewhere dry but not hot, and let the nitroglycerine evaporate, should be OK after 2-3 weeks. Next I'd soak the sticks in a sodium bicarbonate to neutralise any dangerous acids that have developed from nitrocellulose breakdown, rinse and dry. Add a bit of chalk shake and mix, for a nice brick red flash, as well as added powder stability as it would neutralise acids formed. Then I'd have a clean-burning nitrocellulose "very-large-grain" powder.Quote:
Originally Posted by 40mm
To load I'd have to do it by weight for consistency, the sticks are of varying diameter between manufacturers, I have counted between 42 and 53 strands per tightly filled case. You'd have to go for a smaller load in practice and it's obviously never going to burn as hot as when originally loaded into a case. It's not going to be a low-ES powder, but probably acceptable accuracy within 200metres in a powder-shortage era.
Something else, judging by my lack of headache when handling the stuff, I wonder if not a lot of the nitroglycerine may already have slowly and safely evaporated away.
I just want to pile it all up and light it for a thrill. Need a rather large pile to make it interesting though..... Thinking a trailer load.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cordite
Our friends are waiting for us, 40mm. Come, let's go see them.Quote:
Originally Posted by 40mm
Attachment 190951
I would like to hear from anyone who has had success loading BP in 303 British.From what I have read the results are generally disappointing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cordite
it dissolves well in acetone if you want to re-form it into a really nasty trick cigi.
Reckon its a valid thread to discuss. Lots of new reloaders out there and most are curious. Ive seen a fair bit of dropped live 303 at the range so its good to get the message out not to mess about with cordite.
I'm not so sure the nitroglycerin will evaporate, it's chemically bonded to the nitrocellulose and acts as a plasticiser.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cordite
To test if it does take the lid of your jar and have a good sniff, if your heart starts really racing there's a pounding in your ears and your head feels like someone is hitting it with a hammer from the inside then yes it's evaporating.
I pick the second room on the right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cordite
Re-creating the authentic .303/71.5 would be difficult if not impossible. UNLESS ... you actually went back to load straightened annealed cases with cordite pellets and then necking them down. Sounds a bother but it's frankly is easier than alternatives.Quote:
Originally Posted by norsk
The heavy working of the brass with no helpful re-anneal stage allowed in-between to a loaded case off course rules out repeated reloading. Split necks are commonplace with cordite loaded ammo which has been formed that way, but for military ammo reloading was not considered.
We don't know what binder was used in the pellets, if any.
One thought I had is a long flat head nail. You could ... stick a long flat head nail through the primer hole and up to the level of the cartridge shoulder/neck junction and from the throat end stuff down a pre-weighed amount of FG black powder moistened with some binder. Tamper it down with a hollow rod before withdrawing the nail to leave a central powder canal as in the original load. Let it dry somewhere warm for a few weeks, prime and insert a jacketed 215grain round nose. Wear visor and ear muffs of course. It just can't be recommended to prime cases already containing their propellant. And even at that stage, assuming you'd have 71.5grains FG powder in, you're still not matching the original load as the original pellets had at least a loose sliding fit with the cartridge walls which would affect combustion. No, the only safe way to do it would be to do it the original method and then not expect to be able to reload the case.
Trust you...Quote:
Originally Posted by 40mm
It's not evaporating, it's gone. I did wash the cordite with dish soap and bicarb. No fizzing of the bicarb so I don't think there were any dangerous acid breakdown products present.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Henry
I'll leave it with a cloth over it for a few more weeks, nice ice cream container nearly full. Going to be a pain reloading with it as won't meter terribly well. It feels drier than before, probably also some of the vaseline phlegmatiser gone. Now not burning quite as vigorously as when fresh out of the cartridges so I think I'm on the right track.
