Sizing die trouble

So just bought a new set of .222 series A redding dies and the FL die is bloody tight and seems to be stretching and over sizing the neck.

1st case I tried was lubed up with imperial wax and strangely hard as soon as it contacted the neck so I removed and looked and the neck was being for what it seemed like, over sized.
I then tried more lube then less lube, dry lube but no luck. So I full sent it and sure enough, stuck case. Managed to remove it and tried couple different cases to no avail.

Anyone else had this issue or have an idea of what I could be missing?

Cheers

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Have you stripped the die apart and inspected everything and reset it up correctly?

Way over working it. Id measure the dia of the decapping rod and give the inside of the die a measure if you've got the gear to do it. You'll end up with 204 brass at that rate

Did you clean the die before first use as per the manufacturer's instructions?

Yea cleaned it all with solvent to remove all the factory crap in it. Initially had the expander ball assembly removed as I'm using a expander mandrel. But tried it with it and makes no difference.

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Originally Posted by kayneb

So just bought a new set of .222 series A redding dies and the FL die is bloody tight and seems to be stretching and over sizing the neck.

1st case I tried was lubed up with imperial wax and strangely hard as soon as it contacted the neck so I removed and looked and the neck was being for what it seemed like, over sized.
I then tried more lube then less lube, dry lube but no luck. So I full sent it and sure enough, stuck case. Managed to remove it and tried couple different cases to no avail.

Anyone else had this issue or have an idea of what I could be missing?

Cheers

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The ring on the neck of the left case in both pics makes me wonder if it's been inserted far enough into the FL Die. When the FL Die is correctly set into the press that ring would be at or near the bottom of the neck, usually. You might need to reset the decapping stem so it doesn't bottom out and suffer damage inside the case.Could you post another pic of your press setup with a fully inserted case as it would help to tell ? If you're worried about a repeat stuck case ensure that you lube ( with Imperial Wax ) well all the main body of the case but particularly the bottom of the case nearest the case head as that's the most critical area. Imperial Wax lubing should allow you to extract even a tight case. Also, would help you to graphite lube the inside of the neck.

Yea it definitely hasn't gone far enough into the die to size the whole neck. How much wax is too much as I've put a fair amount on already

With imperial sizing wax you need less than a boarding school scrape of butter, 2/3 of 5/8 of stuff all, not even a lick, just run your finger over the surface then run same finger over the surface of the brass. if you can see the wax on the brass it's more than you need and probably too much.

That is when everything is working properly anyway.

Expander too far up in the body of the die so it’s trying to expand while the neck is still within the neck part of the die perhaps. If it’s that, make sure decamping pin is pushed in fully and lower the rod.

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Originally Posted by kayneb

Yea it definitely hasn't gone far enough into the die to size the whole neck. How much wax is too much as I've put a fair amount on already

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Not much is necessary, only a thin film but it doesn't hurt to have a little too much which might just give you a safety margin initially. Cover the whole case body, but particularly the bottom section. Keep wax off the sloping shoulder so it doesn't cause dents. And, as I said, dry lube the inside of the neck, and the outside also is OK.

Bit of a stab in the dark here but your expander mandrel isn't set so its in contact while it's trying to resize the neck right? I'd try adjusting the decapping pin depth and see how that goes?

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Originally Posted by Plinky

Expander too far up in the body of the die so it’s trying to expand while the neck is still within the neck part of the die perhaps. If it’s that, make sure decamping pin is pushed in fully and lower the rod.

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Maybe, but if so I would think he would not be decapping cases either if it was that high. So, if successfully decapping the expander is probably positioned OK. But, if the expander is set too high within the die it might cause an issue ... ??

The Expander/decapping assembly wasn't in it initially as ill use a separate Expander die to set my neck tension afterwards.

I'm not sure what the die is supposed to size the neck down to before the Expander ball widens it but the ID of the case mouth was below .210" without the Expander, Just measured with the calipers

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Originally Posted by 30.06king

Maybe, but if so I would think he would not be decapping cases either if it was that high. So, if successfully decapping the expander is probably positioned OK. But, if the expander is set too high within the die it might cause an issue ... ??

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If the decapping pin isn’t pushed fully in you can lock them in place screwing on the expander so it is possible to deprime and have the expander too high up in the die still. Might be more likely in a smaller cartridge. I did this with one of mine, can’t remember what cal but it was a Redding die.

What brass is it? Have you loaded these cases before?

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Originally Posted by kayneb

The Expander/decapping assembly wasn't in it initially as ill use a separate Expander die to set my neck tension afterwards.

I'm not sure what the die is supposed to size the neck down to before the Expander ball widens it but the ID of the case mouth was below .210" without the Expander, Just measured with the calipers

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I'm not sure either what that measurement should be. It needs to be small enough that the expander will open it up again, enough to allow bullet seating with some tension.
So now I'm guessing here but if you ran into the stuck case problem after the decapping rod / expander plug had been removed from the die then I think it was just insufficient lube applied to the case. You said you tried both less and more but the important area is the lower case as I mentioned. If you have covered all the case body with enough Imperial Wax you shouldn't get any stuck cases. Imperial Wax is very good in preventing that.

Brass is from sako factory ammo, first time loading it

I had a redding flsd and I could only use it with imperial wax, and a good coating of it. Moved it on now just use the cheap / cheerful Lee flrd.
Think the chamber of my rifle is way bigger so asking a lot of the brass to resize in the redding. Having said that I do have a redding body die that doesn't touch the neck, but even so requires a good lube.

Yea I'll try a ton of wax and leave the decapping/expander assembly out again so if the bugger gets stuck I can bang it out once more

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Originally Posted by kayneb

I'm not sure what the die is supposed to size the neck down to before the Expander ball widens it but the ID of the case mouth was below .210" without the Expander, Just measured with the calipers

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Not that you can accurately measure case neck ID with calipers, but Something is definitely not right then. With a 0.224 projectile and 0.002-0.003 interference fit in the case neck, the neck ID should be circa 0.221.

A better way to compare would be by measuring the OD of a loaded round. It should be about 0.252-0.253 depending on case neck thickness. Deduct 0.003-0.004” for neck tension and that should be your target OD of the case neck after FL sizing. If you’re not within a few thousandths of those figures, then your die is well out of spec.

Yea after getting another case stuck, excessive wax is working! Leaving alot of marking on the body but it works

Ran into a new problem now, the Expander mandrel die in supposed to size the neck for .001" neck tension is over sizing by about .003" soneck ID is .226 and projectiles can be pushed in easily by hand :pissed off:

Overworking the neck probably. Something isn't right, your brass life will not be great with that much working of it going on.

Greetings,
The Sako brass is pretty heavy for .222 brass so the neck is likely quite thick which could be part of your problem. It also sounds like you have the wrong mandrel ie too big.
GPM.

Wilson expander die mandrels just come in the 1 size for some reason and designed to provide 1 thou neck tension. It reads .223 with the calipers, plus with some spring back I'd expect to not get an ID of .225"-.226"

Resized some with the FL sizer and expander ball installed and it's giving consistent neck tension of .0025

In saying that it feels like the case is pulling the mandrel off center, when the case mouth comes free of the end of the mandrel it's like the mandrel springs back slightly. I can't see any obvious reason why it wouldn't be lining up.

There isbugger all wiggle room in 222 case the expander ball is close to neck when it's fully in case I bought a new expander for my Lee set and it's 204 on one end and tapers out to the other. Not too hard to shorten the fat section to give more wiggle room. After loading 223 for twenty plus years I really was scratching head with 222 to start with as couldn't work out what was wrong.

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Originally Posted by kayneb

In saying that it feels like the case is pulling the mandrel off center, when the case mouth comes free of the end of the mandrel it's like the mandrel springs back slightly. I can't see any obvious reason why it wouldn't be lining up.

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Take the die, complete with expander, out of the press and look up into the interior. Check if the stem is centred. Sometimes they're not but can be untightened, turned slightly until centred and tightened down again.
If you continue getting a hard time with the Redding expander an option is to try a Hornady Eliptical Expander. You can buy just the Expander with Stem as a part and they do screw into Redding Dies. They are a little easier to pull back through the neck, expand a little more progressively and more gently on the brass. It might help with your tension issue.

Anneal the brass. Take out your expander. Run your shell holder up. Then drew in your die 1/8 to 1/4 more. Imperial wax on bottom 1/2 of case. Should size easily.

Screw.

Looks like faulty manufacturing to me. Or die is wrong size.

Noticed recently bumped the shoulder back 2th using redding body die, then Lee collet neck die, re measured shoulder and bugger me was regularly back where I started. This brass was freshly annealed, so soft. Ok reverse the process, problem solved. Was wondering why some rounds showed some resistance to chambering. Always learning :thumbsup:

Yea this whole debacle has taught me truckloads, amazes me how fickle this reloading business can be, sure is great to finally get a load that groups though.

This 1thou expander mandrel I'm using that was causing the oversized necks and the projectiles to drop in, tried it on some 22 250 brass I have and works perfectly. I ended up running everything the 222 brass back through the FL die(which seems to be working well now) with the expander ball in to regain the neck tension, I then used the expander mandrel again as it opens the necks up another 1 to 1.5 thou more on a couple cases just for interest sakes and it bloody worked. Just leaving the brass how it came out of the FL die however, without annealing again the brass is already overworked I'd say so I'll leave it at that.