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Understood. Its not so much that i dont understand why it isnt a great deal faster, I for the most part understand the mechanics of it & why its diminishing returns. My gripe was more with hornadys load data implying its capable of things that it appears it really isnt. Yes theres the argument that a longer barrel will help, but so will a longer barrel on a creedmoor with slower burning powders, Just not to the same extent.
Correct and no doubt their test barrels 24" for their "data"Quote:
Originally Posted by 6.5 CRD
Their test barrel is 26". My own 26" didnt even really come close to hornady claims & neither does my 24" even if your generous as far as what you would expect to lose with a 2" shorter barrel.
sp pretty much why folks poke crap in direction of the 6.5creampuff???? they are what they are,no more and no less. hypeing them up to be more than that just leads to heartbreak and disillusionment...or in the case of early african professional guides a mauling or death.Quote:
Originally Posted by 6.5 CRD
I recall my 6.5prc did 2990 with 147eldm out of 20 inch barrel with superformance. No pressure signs
Do you recall what brass & how many grains of superformance it took you to get there?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gkp
Interesting read. Some of the mentioned loads that have "no signs of pressure" show to be well over pressure when run through GRT. To be fair though GRT isnt always 100% accurate, usually a good indication though, i have found it to line up pretty close with my own real world results when all the right data is entered.
Not sure if i have just had 2 slow PRCs, or most people arent scared of just sending it with some strong brass & are running higher pressures than they think.
Superformance is the ducks nuts as quick or quicker than 26 for less powder but you dont want to be anywhere near a top and as its very temp sensitive thoughs who aren't scard or it who use it use it well it meters flawlessly threw my thrower used in my 22" creed 2800 with 147 eldm still havent finished that load d 2 years later but showed promise
Interesting one superformance, i spent some time with it in my creedmoor & ended up with wrecked lapua brass in the long run. Ive found RL26 to be better in the creedmoor, i can get to the same speed with RL26 but without the peak pressure. GRT Shows it too, Same velocity but superformance overpressure when RL26 is just on the limit.
Superformance
Attachment 227204
RL26
Attachment 227205
The most reliable "sign of pressure" is velocity, people get hung up about looking for flattened primers, heavy bolt lift or ejector stamping etc but just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't there (a bit like the wind) assuming all other things are equal if loading to saami spec then velocity is a fairly accurate sign of pressure. Obviously if you are seating longer or shorter that is where tools like GRT are good as a guideline, there are other variables like case volume and hardness etc. There will always be exceptions to this however I would suggest if your getting velocity that is well above book max charges there are no free lunches it isn't a magic powder or rifle chamber that is some how immune to pressure, you will end up trashing brass or eroding your barrel quicker or both or in extreme cases a failure of some sort.Quote:
Originally Posted by 6.5 CRD
Not preaching to the O.P just my 2 cents.
This of course has been said before but it never hurts to repeat it
I would also note anecdotally that my mate's Hardy PRC stamps case heads even with 130gr factory ammo. (I told him to try cleaning the chamber, unsure whether that resolved it)
I have always respected book max but also would run a ladder, must increments of .3 of a grain would produce say 20-30 fps increase. When you get a sharp increase in velocity you are normally at pressure.Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyb
That is why you should start low and work up, every rifle is different and pressure/velocity will not be the same.
Thats why some rifles are faster than others, just because Joe Blogs rifle does 3000 fps does not mean a different rifle will be.
Superformance works well for me in the PRC but being a double based powder I backed off a bit for that reason.
Theres no such thing as a free lunch.
As stated before every rifle is different.
Remember to tune GRT with your real world chrono numbers via the OBT tool.
Can't help but think you must be wringing the piss out of your Creedmoor, if you're getting over 2900.
I'm getting ~3000 with 147's from my 26" PRC with a mild load of AR2225. Could push closer to 3100 but I see no point.
As ive written in previous posts, it is wringing the piss out of it to do those speeds, not arguing that, and i dont run it that hot, it was just speeds observed doing a ladder test, however not really the point of my original post. More my question from the beginning was regardless of what the creedmoor seems to be capable of, PRCs i have dealt with seem to under perform and i was interested to see what others are achievingQuote:
Originally Posted by Pommy
It does exactly what you’d expect it to, no more or less? A bigger bro to the creedmoor. It fires the same sized projectiles at a faster speed, with more powder burnt and more recoil.Quote:
Originally Posted by 6.5 CRD
Any speed you can get out of your creedmoor, the prc will smoke it by 200fps. Weather or not 12grs+ of powder more is worth it to party I guess is up to you
My experience is 143s at 3100, 147s at 3000, and 156s at 2950 2x 24” 6.5prcs. The tikka prc was noticeably slower at the same charges than my current one by a grain
Chur
I used to have a 24” 6.5x55BJAI that I ran up to 3220 or so with 140 Amaxs without obvious pressure. Settled on 3050 from memory. Tentman has it now. Dont know what he s running in it. Have 6.5Saum dies and reamers in the cupboard never used. Having a hard job convincing myself of the need to build one given the increased complexity and my experience with the ackley. The PRC s not at all inspiring.
Bejaasu your memory is better than mine! It's long since gone from here!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidney
If you wring the piss out of a PRC to the same degree with a double based powder analogous to how Re26 works in the smaller Creedmoor case (maybe Re33???), I dare say you'll still see the same ~150-200fps increase that Hornady said you can expect. I think Hornady are making quite a modest and realistic claim there as to what's possible.
Fair point & makes sense.
You fidgety like myself Tentman? - It was one of those I wished I had kept....Quote:
Originally Posted by Tentman
so..just because I CAN ASK....and we have members who can answer ..... the 6.5-06 must just about cream them both??? or at least be on par ,so the only practical advantage is ????shorter action length???
interesting to read the 6.5x55AI is no slouch either.
Still 150fps shy according to ADI load data.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
The 7mm saum on the left will spit out a 168 grain pill at the same speed as the prc with a 147
Attachment 227260
6.5 RWS 6.5 Rem Mag or Weatherby RPMQuote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
Mark and Sam did a feature on comparing 6.506AI vs 6.5 Saum. Same barrel, powder load, case capacity. Saum smoked the 06 with the only explanation that Sam could find was a more efficient case at a guess.
My own thought is that with heavier bc bullets the 06 needs a really long barrel, but that is only a guess
The saum has an inch more rifling as the ammo is an inch shorterQuote:
Originally Posted by Moa Hunter
So more velocity
True, but the Saum was 200 fps ahead with the same chargeQuote:
Originally Posted by 7mmsaum
