Thank you - First Handloads

Just a post to say thanks to all the knowledgeable people on this forum, so many great questions and answers that have helped guide my new reloading hobby. That and a solid addiction to Erik Cortina’s YouTube has gotten me to my first batch of hand loaded 6.5CM ammo! So stoked and can’t wait to keep developing and chasing that one hole group.

Attachment 177579

Have loaded 50 rounds in 5 round groups, each group has .3gr increases of RL16 from 41.4gr - 44.5gr. Have a magnetospeed v3 on order so once that arrives I’ll be checking each charge weight for pressure signs, velocity ES & SD to find optimal load prior to seating depth test.

Attempted to find Jam length on my barrel but seating at 2.175” CBTO doesn’t push the bullet back when chambering and is my max mag length so will just do the seating test from there, looking at group sizes in .003” increments until they’re all one hole 😂

Only concerns at this stage are some irregularities with shoulder bump (I don’t anneal so this is likely the cause) which I think in turn is causing some infrequent seating depth errors (only +-.001”), on the whole really happy with my gear thus far.

Redding Big Boss 2 Press
Redding Type S Match Die set (Full Length Die w/bushing & Competition micrometer seater)
Hornady Hand Held Primer
Hornady Balance Beam
Hornady once fired brass
Reloder 16
135gr A-Tip Match Bullets
CCI #200 LR Primers

Next purchase is definitely a chargemaster, balance beam is great but bloody tedious! 😂

Will post my results once I manage to get out to test everything

50 rounds :o
I would've just loaded a charge weight ladder to start with maybe 12 to 15 rounds 3 at each charge weight going up in .5gn increments.
Find where your es is lowest and if acceptable tutu with the seating depth from there.
I only say this as components are in short supply and your gonna burn a heap of powder and pills there just with your starting point.
Most of the loads I have developed have taken less than 50 rounds some much much less.
If times where different and components were easily obtained I'd say go for it you'll learn heaps by going about it the way you are.

@Hg1990 rip in to it cobber, loading them is only half the fun......hopefully you have more of the same components then it doesn't matter :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by dannyb

50 rounds :o
I would've just loaded a charge weight ladder to start with maybe 12 to 15 rounds 3 at each charge weight going up in .5gn increments.
Find where your es is lowest and if acceptable tutu with the seating depth from there.
I only say this as components are in short supply and your gonna burn a heap of powder and pills there just with your starting point.
Most of the loads I have developed have taken less than 50 rounds some much much less.
If times where different and components were easily obtained I'd say go for it you'll learn heaps by going about it the way you are.

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Thanks mate. Yep it’s a lot of components! Figured I’d more than likely find a decent load or see pressure signs before I shoot all of them so will be pulling some of them no doubt. Was good practice loading them all though! Found the extended ladder concept through “ultimatereloader” Gavin on YouTube, trying to find the edges of where the ideal charge weight is plus the 5 shots at each will give me more info on ES/SD. Wanted to get as much info as possible out of the test so figured I’d try it, will still have plenty leftover to play with once I’m done. It’s what happens after those run out that’ll be the problem! 😂

Shoot 'em all. You're probably better focusing on velocity ES instead of SD. Here is an interesting write up about it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by charliehorse

@Hg1990 rip in to it cobber, loading them is only half the fun......hopefully you have more of the same components then it doesn't matter :thumbsup:

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Thanks mate! yep got a decent amount of them left, once I’ve got the data from everything I should be able to load a fair few up to play with! Just gotta keep the eyes peeled for whenever they come up again so I can stay ahead of what I use

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Magnetite

Shoot 'em all. You're probably better focusing on velocity ES instead of SD. Here is an interesting write up about it.

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Thanks mate, very interesting read. Will use ES as the main indicator 👍🏼

Update - So my magnetospeed arrived and I’ve got the results of my charge weight testing done!

Attachment 178506

Ruger American Hunter Rifle - 20inch Barrel

All rounds seated at 2.175” (max mag length)

Best results were at 42.9gr and 43.2gr

42.9gr
Avg 2695 f/s
ES 14 / SD 5.5

43.2gr
Avg 2738 f/s
ES 19 / SD 7.8

Very happy to see two sequential loads with good ES numbers, velocity will also (at least theoretically) shoot out to 1000m within the adjustment of my scope (Vortex Viper PST Gen II 5-25 x 50).

Also glad I chose to do 5 rounds at each charge, there were a few loads where until the 4th/5th round I was getting single digit ES numbers so good to have the extra data points!

Going to load another 5 rounds at both 43.0 & 43.1gr and retest those loads to confirm I’m where I want to be speedwise and see if I’ve found the best ES within that range of charge weights.

At higher loads I did start to see very mild (at least to my inexperienced eyes) pressure signs - cratering around the primer

Attachment 178507

Happy that I should be able to load at my ideal charge without pressure issues, once I’ve confirmed the loads I’ll do my seating test with three rounds starting at max mag length and then three thousandths deeper for 5-6 depths (or until
I find where it groups well!)

I wouldn’t overlook that flat spot between 43.2-43.5gr. It may prove to be more stable under varying conditions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Magnetite

I wouldn’t overlook that flat spot between 43.2-43.5gr. It may prove to be more stable under varying conditions.

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Is that even with the higher ES numbers? Whilst those two loads are producing a flat spot it is the average of 5 shots, would the loads that are producing lower ES not produce more consistent velocity and therefore better groups/ more consistent at distance?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hg1990

Update - So my magnetospeed arrived and I’ve got the results of my charge weight testing done!

Attachment 178506

Ruger American Hunter Rifle - 20inch Barrel

All rounds seated at 2.175” (max mag length)

Best results were at 42.9gr and 43.2gr

42.9gr
Avg 2695 f/s
ES 14 / SD 5.5

43.2gr
Avg 2738 f/s
ES 19 / SD 7.8

Very happy to see two sequential loads with good ES numbers, velocity will also (at least theoretically) shoot out to 1000m within the adjustment of my scope (Vortex Viper PST Gen II 5-25 x 50).

Also glad I chose to do 5 rounds at each charge, there were a few loads where until the 4th/5th round I was getting single digit ES numbers so good to have the extra data points!

Going to load another 5 rounds at both 43.0 & 43.1gr and retest those loads to confirm I’m where I want to be speedwise and see if I’ve found the best ES within that range of charge weights.

At higher loads I did start to see very mild (at least to my inexperienced eyes) pressure signs - cratering around the primer

Attachment 178507

Happy that I should be able to load at my ideal charge without pressure issues, once I’ve confirmed the loads I’ll do my seating test with three rounds starting at max mag length and then three thousandths deeper for 5-6 depths (or until
I find where it groups well!)

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Did you shoot at a target? What groups did you get?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 7mm Rem Mag

Did you shoot at a target? What groups did you get?

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No didn’t shoot at paper, just over the chrony to establish lowest ES / stable charge weight before using seating depth to tune the load to small groups. Following Erik Cortinas load development method, will post groups once I do my seating depth test

Ok interested to see the groups. Good luck

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 7mm Rem Mag

Ok interested to see the groups. Good luck

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Thanks mate will post how I get on!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hg1990

Update - So my magnetospeed arrived and I’ve got the results of my charge weight testing done!

Attachment 178506

Ruger American Hunter Rifle - 20inch Barrel

All rounds seated at 2.175” (max mag length)

Best results were at 42.9gr and 43.2gr

42.9gr
Avg 2695 f/s
ES 14 / SD 5.5

43.2gr
Avg 2738 f/s
ES 19 / SD 7.8

Very happy to see two sequential loads with good ES numbers, velocity will also (at least theoretically) shoot out to 1000m within the adjustment of my scope (Vortex Viper PST Gen II 5-25 x 50).

Also glad I chose to do 5 rounds at each charge, there were a few loads where until the 4th/5th round I was getting single digit ES numbers so good to have the extra data points!

Going to load another 5 rounds at both 43.0 & 43.1gr and retest those loads to confirm I’m where I want to be speedwise and see if I’ve found the best ES within that range of charge weights.

At higher loads I did start to see very mild (at least to my inexperienced eyes) pressure signs - cratering around the primer

Attachment 178507

Happy that I should be able to load at my ideal charge without pressure issues, once I’ve confirmed the loads I’ll do my seating test with three rounds starting at max mag length and then three thousandths deeper for 5-6 depths (or until
I find where it groups well!)

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Greetings @Hg1990,
You are on your way on your handloading journey. You have already learnt that 5 shot groups beat 3 shot groups in predicting precision. Yes I realise that you have not shot on paper yet but you have noted the low ES and stable velocity around that 43 grain charge level. I would not get too excited about the appearance of your primers. There are just too many things that produce primers that look like that that are not high pressure. I would be more interested that your velocity is in line with the minimal tested load data I have been able to find. Allowing for your barrel length your pressures are a little under max. Further there are no ejector stamps or swipe marks that would indicate excessive pressure.
You will find your own way in your handloading selecting methods that work for you. These will change as you move along and gain experience. I still learn something new often after close to 50 years loading my own. Enjoy the journey.
Regards Grandpamac.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hg1990

Is that even with the higher ES numbers? Whilst those two loads are producing a flat spot it is the average of 5 shots, would the loads that are producing lower ES not produce more consistent velocity and therefore better groups/ more consistent at distance?

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This is how I understand it: It depends on the use case. As the pressure varies (temperature, case volume, barrel fowling, etc.) the flat spot will group around the same point of impact (poi) because the average is the same. However with the tighter SD the poi will shift however the group will be tighter. There is also the question of what the barrel harmonics are doing at those points.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings @Hg1990,
You are on your way on your handloading journey. You have already learnt that 5 shot groups beat 3 shot groups in predicting precision. Yes I realise that you have not shot on paper yet but you have noted the low ES and stable velocity around that 43 grain charge level. I would not get too excited about the appearance of your primers. There are just too many things that produce primers that look like that that are not high pressure. I would be more interested that your velocity is in line with the minimal tested load data I have been able to find. Allowing for your barrel length your pressures are a little under max. Further there are no ejector stamps or swipe marks that would indicate excessive pressure.
You will find your own way in your handloading selecting methods that work for you. These will change as you move along and gain experience. I still learn something new often after close to 50 years loading my own. Enjoy the journey.
Regards Grandpamac.

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Thanks so much for the message, greatly appreciate the advice and guidance. So great to have the forum to learn from everyone

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Magnetite

This is how I understand it: It depends on the use case. As the pressure varies (temperature, case volume, barrel fowling, etc.) the flat spot will group around the same point of impact (poi) because the average is the same. However with the tighter SD the poi will shift however the group will be tighter. There is also the question of what the barrel harmonics are doing at those points.

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Ahhh so the stable averages will lead to stable POI, whereas the low ES will lead to consistent small groups that may potentially have a POI change with changes in conditions?

I’m hoping the seating depth test will lead to optimizing the barrel harmonics?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hg1990

Ahhh so the stable averages will lead to stable POI, whereas the low ES will lead to consistent small groups that may potentially have a POI change with changes in conditions?

I’m hoping the seating depth test will lead to optimizing the barrel harmonics?

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That's the theory, I may be wrong.

Seating depth will optimize the harmonics. However I don't know If starting at a bad or good place will get you to the the same point. Or to put it another way do all roads lead to Rome?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Magnetite

That's the theory, I may be wrong.

Seating depth will optimize the harmonics. However I don't know If starting at a bad or good place will get you to the the same point. Or to put it another way do all roads lead to Rome?

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Erik Cortina says seating depth can tune any load, but I guess not all tuned loads will be “Rome”. Big ES and inconsistent velocity can be tuned with seating depth but that may just make a big group slightly less big, and perhaps getting all the parts optimal means best possible results? Looking forward to finding out!

In my experience hornady brass needs a good check on your primer pockets.
A uniformer can cost as little as $30 and its good to know that none of the primers
Should sit proud after that (assuming that's the reason for your marks)

Another Update - finalised charge weight and first seating depth tests done!

Went ahead and tested velocity at 43.0gr & 43.1gr to confirm that it was a stable spot for my charge weight, results were

42.9gr - Avg 2695f/s - ES 14 (previous best load)
43.0gr - Avg 2694f/s - ES 23
43.1gr - Avg 2697f/s - ES 49

So looks to be a nice stable spot with speeds holding at just under 2700f/s and my best ES at 42.9gr - this is what I chose as my powder charge going forward


For the seating depth test I started at mag length and worked back in .003” increments for a total of 7 three shot groups. All groups shot at 100m off a pack in prone (no bipod). All measurements were done with the “Ballistic-X” app with a 22mm pastie as the targets/reference measurement.

Seating Depth Test
2.175 - .456MOA / 1.327cm
2.172 - 1.158MOA / 3.368cm
2.169 - .762MOA / 2.217cm
2.166 - 1.022MOA / 2.972cm
2.163 - .905MOA / 2.632cm
2.160 - .996MOA / 2.896cm
2.157 - .449MOA / 1.307cm

Best Group

Attachment 180394

Looks like at max mag length is the end of one node whilst my lowest depth of 2.157” is into another. Wish I’d gone another few depths to find the end of that node, that will be my next outing where I’ll see if 2.154/2.150” produce another similar sub 1/2MOA group as that’s where I’ll want to load at (consecutive small groups where the group size is stable).

Stoked I should hopefully be able to get onto a sub 1/2 MOA load!

Finalised my load for now, completed the last few seating depth tests and then shot multiple groups at 100m & 200m of my confirmed load.
Tests done in same conditions (Shooting off pack at 100m)

Last Seating Depth Tests (2.157 best previous @ .449 MOA)
2.154 - .457 MOA
2.151 - .511 MOA
2.148 - .835 MOA

Given the groups started to open up again called it done with my seating depth node being 2.151 - 2.157. Therefore chose 2.156 as my final seating depth and today took a crack at a few groups, stoked with the results!

100m Groups

First two shots through the exact same hole
Attachment 182986

First time shooting a .3 group
Attachment 182987

200m Group

Think I could’ve shot better but still under 1/2 MOA
Attachment 182988

Looking to keep fine tuning the process, also have a batch of new Peterson brass to test out at some point as it should be a lot more consistent than my Hornady brass

Final Load
Hornady 135gr ATip Match Bullet
42.9gr Reloder 16
CCI 200 LRP
Hornady Brass
Seating Depth 2.156”