Think I've sussed the 284

Gidday team.

So after taking advice re the thread on 180gr eld M for 284.

I've gone and got the 162gr eld M and seated them to 50 thou jump. So going from 3.2520 COAL to 3.200 COAL.

A es of 18fps. I fired 6 rounds and that being that I dropped one after I loaded it and it went to 3.187 COAL so I used that as my excuse round.

The picture shows 2 rounds making a ragged hole off to the left which could be me then the next 4 are the actual group. Got them at 2700fps. What I'll do now is go and make another 5 or so up and confirm this. By doing that it rules out the randomness etc which has been discussed at length on here. A big thanks for those who offered their help and knowledge team. I don't pretend to know anything and everything but I do try and give back where I can so thanks again.

I also noticed that with the projectiles seated deeper they felt like they had less recoil too which was really nice.Attachment 265616

Attachment 265617

Id be happy with that

ES of 18? Thats such crap :ORLY: :D

But the latest trend is seating depth does nothing to accuracy so that can’t be right…… well done mate glad you sorted it fun times ahead

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rock river arms hunter

Gidday team.

So after taking advice re the thread on 180gr eld M for 284.

I've gone and got the 162gr eld M and seated them to 50 thou jump. So going from 3.2520 COAL to 3.200 COAL.

A es of 18fps. I fired 6 rounds and that being that I dropped one after I loaded it and it went to 3.187 COAL so I used that as my excuse round.

The picture shows 2 rounds making a ragged hole off to the left which could be me then the next 4 are the actual group. Got them at 2700fps. What I'll do now is go and make another 5 or so up and confirm this. By doing that it rules out the randomness etc which has been discussed at length on here. A big thanks for those who offered their help and knowledge team. I don't pretend to know anything and everything but I do try and give back where I can so thanks again.

I also noticed that with the projectiles seated deeper they felt like they had less recoil too which was really nice.Attachment 265616

---

Some nice grouping there. Always a good feeling when a load starts coming together.

To clarify - what was your original jump? 3.252 -> 3.200 would be a reduction of 52 thou? Just wondering if being so close to the lands was causing some of the initial inconsistency.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by earplay

Some nice grouping there. Always a good feeling when a load starts coming together.

To clarify - what was your original jump? 3.252 -> 3.200 would be a reduction of 52 thou? Just wondering if being so close to the lands was causing some of the initial inconsistency.

---

It was reamed to be 10 thou off the lands at 3.252 COAL so I just went down to 3.200 as it's a nice number and basically 50 thou. Took advice from a few mates with more experience both on here and off re seating depth. I just like believing in results that speak for themselves if that makes sense?

To be fair I think I did get a bit group happy so it could've been tighter on my end.

Is there a scope adjustment between the 6 shots?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rock river arms hunter

It was reamed to be 10 thou off the lands at 3.252 COAL so I just went down to 3.200 as it's a nice number and basically 50 thou. Took advice from a few mates with more experience both on here and off re seating depth. I just like believing in results that speak for themselves if that makes sense?

To be fair I think I did get a bit group happy so it could've been tighter on my end.

---

Well done so you stuck with the same powder and pill and just pulled them back off the lands?

Sent from my CPH2531 using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gimp

Is there a scope adjustment between the 6 shots?

---

@gimp ahhh no that was just me being group happy so operator error

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 25/08 IMP

Well done so you stuck with the same powder and pill and just pulled them back off the lands?

Sent from my CPH2531 using Tapatalk

---

@25/08 IMP

Yep that's the one

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rock river arms hunter

It was reamed to be 10 thou off the lands at 3.252 COAL so I just went down to 3.200 as it's a nice number and basically 50 thou. Took advice from a few mates with more experience both on here and off re seating depth. I just like believing in results that speak for themselves if that makes sense?

To be fair I think I did get a bit group happy so it could've been tighter on my end.

---

I started from a short COAL with that projectile (in a 7mm08 that is), but I'm interested to see what pushing it a bit closer to the lands would do. It's shooting ok, but it's currently about 150 thou off. Think I've got a little bit more room in mag left to play with. The question is how much to move it to see a measurable difference, and how many shots to verify it's actually better!

Looks like in your case, moving it over a mm seems to have made a marked improvement. Be interested to see any follow-up groups to see if they also track similarly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by earplay

I started from a short COAL with that projectile (in a 7mm08 that is), but I'm interested to see what pushing it a bit closer to the lands would do. It's shooting ok, but it's currently about 150 thou off. Think I've got a little bit more room in mag left to play with. The question is how much to move it to see a measurable difference, and how many shots to verify it's actually better!

Looks like in your case, moving it over a mm seems to have made a marked improvement. Be interested to see any follow-up groups to see if they also track similarly.

---

@earplay well funnily enough it might be a give away but I do also own a 7mm08 bushpig model 7. From memory it's a COAL of 2.780 with 160gr tmk doing 2413fps and absolutely snots anything.

I'll follow up with another 5 round group in the coming days to confirm today.

Getting back to my 7mm08 I don't know what the jump is it's just a case of so to speak or seating to mag length and it's .3 MOA. Hitting the gong at 475y is easy with it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rock river arms hunter

@gimp ahhh no that was just me being group happy so operator error

---

So what does the entire actual 6 shot group measure?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gimp

So what does the entire actual 6 shot group measure?

---

It doesn't matter. He is now happy and confident with the results. What ever it is will still practically achieve what he will need.

Sample size that small is meaningless data.

Shoot 10-20

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kelton

But the latest trend is seating depth does nothing to accuracy so that can’t be right…… well done mate glad you sorted it fun times ahead

---

Apparently your wasting your time neck sizing as well

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Roarless20

It doesn't matter. He is now happy and confident with the results. What ever it is will still practically achieve what he will need.

---

I agree absolutely

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kelton

But the latest trend is seating depth does nothing to accuracy so that can’t be right…… well done mate glad you sorted it fun times ahead

---

Only in the interest of furthering the conversation about the concepts and process, and not in any specific concern for this individual case :

What evidence of a difference do you see between the two?

I dont quite think that is what they were getting at, it's more that if the combination does not have anywhere near the accuracy you are looking for, then seating depth is unlikely to bring a change about that's big enough to improve accuracy drastically. In other words, seating depth to fine tune a load, if it's not accurate, big changes will be the answer, as either powder, projectile or even bareel in extreme cases.. that's what I've taken from the numerous podcasts relating to reloading for precision rifle anyways

I know of a member who’s rifle wasn’t shooting very well he pushed projectiles in to sami length then shoot a 49 out of 50 and won the local deer stalkers shoot


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

@caberslash thats exactly why I'm going to load another 20 up. Do a 6 shot group next to the 4 shot group like as in on the same big target with another shoot n see next to it. Then measure the new group, and add it to the existing 4 shot group which will give me a total group size for a 10 shot group.

Then the remainder rounds I'll use to validate at the gongs at 570 and 620y

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rock river arms hunter

@caberslash thats exactly why I'm going to load another 20 up. Do a 6 shot group next to the 4 shot group like as in on the same big target with another shoot n see next to it. Then measure the new group, and add it to the existing 4 shot group which will give me a total group size for a 10 shot group.

Then the remainder rounds I'll use to validate at the gongs at 570 and 620y

---

I appreciate your approach, mine is much more crude.

For me it's decide on a COAL (fit and function in a magazine) then the seating die never moves again. Throw one powder charge approaching book max, shoot it and if the rifle and case are still in one peice then it's go time. Repeat until enough ammo is there then have a good few shots for zeroing and drops then away hunting/shooting.

I am more of a reloader than a hand-loader.

If you go for perfection, everything must be perfect. Bugger that.
Even if I had the perfect combination and load, Im not a perfect shooter.
Perfection is elusive. When I was farming I thought I did most things right...but looking back...I used to piss around getting the drenching gun within a part mm accurate, and then guess the average weight of the sheep. Stupidity and futility.

So Ive fallen into line. Near max book load and mag length. If it shoots .75" or better for a few shots and is repeatable I fold my tent and go home.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tahr

If you go for perfection, everything must be perfect. Bugger that.
Even if I had the perfect combination and load, Im not a perfect shooter.
Perfection is elusive. When I was farming I thought I did most things right...but looking back...I used to piss around getting the drenching gun within a part mm accurate, and then guess the average weight of the sheep. Stupidity and futility.

So Ive fallen into line. Near max book load and mag length. If it shoots .75" or better for a few shots and is repeatable I fold my tent and go home.

---

Wize words indeed, and while I like really accurate rifles, and enjoy the challenge of getting something to "shoot", when I go hunting my favorites are always "what's gonna be best to carry in that country" and is it "minute of deer" or whatever else I might be chasing. And then there's the practise thing, it's no use having a sub MOA rifle if you can't break an offhand shot, or one from a steep face over a tussock with your arse sliding downhill . . . .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tahr

If you go for perfection, everything must be perfect. Bugger that.
Even if I had the perfect combination and load, Im not a perfect shooter.
Perfection is elusive. When I was farming I thought I did most things right...but looking back...I used to piss around getting the drenching gun within a part mm accurate, and then guess the average weight of the sheep. Stupidity and futility.

So Ive fallen into line. Near max book load and mag length. If it shoots .75" or better for a few shots and is repeatable I fold my tent and go home.

---

Perfection is the enemy of progress.

@Tentman

Absolutely agree completely. I do enjoy the calibre debates in this regard. Do the deer notice the difference between x,y, z if it's poked in the right place? Chances are not. I'm also mindful of my own shooting abilities on the range vs in the field. On the range a 620y shot is not super hard. However if that's in the field and a deer well I'd be trying to gain atleast 200y on it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rock river arms hunter

@Tentman

Absolutely agree completely. I do enjoy the calibre debates in this regard. Do the deer notice the difference between x,y, z if it's poked in the right place? Chances are not. I'm also mindful of my own shooting abilities on the range vs in the field. On the range a 620y shot is not super hard. However if that's in the field and a deer well I'd be trying to gain atleast 200y on it

---

Yes. 400 yards is my sensible max regardless of the rifle/caliber combo or game.
I seem to shoot the best on wallaby. Maybe 'cos I get into the groove and I subconsciously know I need to be more precise.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tahr

If you go for perfection, everything must be perfect. Bugger that.
Even if I had the perfect combination and load, Im not a perfect shooter.
Perfection is elusive. When I was farming I thought I did most things right...but looking back...I used to piss around getting the drenching gun within a part mm accurate, and then guess the average weight of the sheep. Stupidity and futility.

So Ive fallen into line. Near max book load and mag length. If it shoots .75" or better for a few shots and is repeatable I fold my tent and go home.

---

Here's another farming analogy that might well be appropriate.


When I was studying agriculture, part of my course was periods of time spent on different farms. The first farm I went too was fantastic! great stock, producing big early lambs etc. He had a definitive approach to how he did everything, including crutching, and I got told off for holding my sheep the wrong way and thus my hand-piece was cutting the fleece above the tail wrong. shortening it and costing money when it came too shearing.

The next farmer I went too, was also excellent with fantastic stock, and I applied my new learnt skill in thew shearing shed, only to find out that it was wrong and I should go back too how I had done it before because the new way was slower and time was money when you had thousands to do.


What I learnt from that, and many other things/ differences; was that what was really important, was that the individual liked their approach and therefore made it work for them.

I know people go on about the big BC bullets, group sizes, ES spread etc etc. Great in the search for your goal I suppose. But i got my .284 shooting common old 150gn Ballistic Tips at 3050. I got them to shoot an inch group at 100 yards and thought that will do me. I just seated the bullets to fit in the mag and that was that. I cant seat them out any longer, so there was no point worrying about it. So far everything it has connected with has died without much fuss.... its been a great calibre!!

@Kudu your spot on there with the 150nbt. When I got my 284 up and running it was easy to get a good load with 150nbt and 2209 doing 2900 ft/sec. Yesterday I put 5 shots into a 14mm group.

But because I'm never happy I have been playing 162eldm. Rl17 was giving great speed but inconsistent so have just tried rl16 which is looking very promising.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kelton

But the latest trend is seating depth does nothing to accuracy so that can’t be right…… well done mate glad you sorted it fun times ahead

---

I would say the increase in precision is due to the reduction of loose spare case capacity. Seating further back does work well. Having a short throat doesn't hurt too but getting ES of 18 footzies plus a pin hole group like that.. mission accomplished mate.

Now change your projectile and powder and start again. You know you want to.