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Supposedly, lightweight pellets don't offer enough resistance to the spring and the spring and piston slam down too fast and cause damage.
For instance, I'm using a 22 cal spring gun and typical weights for lead pellets are 14-18gr. Would 12gr be OK ? 10gr ? a cleaning wad ? Can you look at it by a corresponding maximum mechanically safe pellet muzzle velocity ?
why do you want a lite pellet? I think as you get start getting light your back into alloys. I'm assuming if they make them they arn't breaking springs.
I use ftt at 14.66gr, aafield at 16gr and I consider that light. Don't think I'd go lighter due to the fact I don't want to lose any more fpi at target, don't want to use alloy, if the piston is moving faster it's going to stop faster, more recoil.
I also think it would have a lot to do with how powerful your gun is.
Not really an awser to your question though I guess
Depends on your rifle and what it it set up for.
For less powerful rifles such as junior air rifles you might get away with a lighter pellet but junior rifles are normally only .177
The lighter the pellet yes you are basically dry firing the rifle which in turn will break the piston, piston seals, and the piston spring (or gas ram) cleaning wads I never use the as yes you are basically dry firing (use rod and cleaning patch)
For .22 I wouldn't go under 14gr if your hunting with it. Lighter pellets might be faster out of the muzzel but loose their energy faster at distance and are also less accurate down range. A heavier pellet will be slower, retain more energy and be more accurate every time.
Also ... The lighter the pellet the heavier the recoil and you will destroy your scope very fast.
You will find that lighter weight pellets are made for sub 12flb rifles like what they use in UK and other county's to be suitable for their laws for muzzle energy. You will also find that most lighter weight pellets are flat heads and to be used in target air rifles for like 10m target shooting and yes they aren't putting out hunting muzzle velocity
I cant for the life of me see the attraction of lighter pellets in an air rifle.... match grade more accurate forsure...but lighter is purely faster.... heavier hits harder. the range an air rifle is used at you want every bit of energy you can get, a bit heavier pellet is better on game...and cheap old school ones work just fine for me....
The two pellets I use are the ones that group the tightest out of gun up to 50mtrs. I have a dozen or so tins that didn't shoot as well especially the 18 gr and above. I've had no issues with them knocking over hares, cats, rabbits, pidgin, pheasant up to 45 meters. From what I've read(don't know from experiance) a heavier pellet retains volicity more and over a longer distance will reach the target quicker.
Yes you absolutely need to find what your rifle likes to shoot.
I'm my .25cal rifles, my Hatsan loves JSB exact king 25.4gr pellets, any lighter the grouping is terrible, it will shoot H&N 28gr pellets accurately too but any heavier it struggles to send them.
My .25cal webbly doesn't like the JSB pellets and likes Gamo hunter 21.6gr pellets and will shoot them more accurately than the JSB even though they are a terrible looking pellet!
I usually like my springers around 890-950 range and choose the pellet weight depending on that and accuracy. If gun goes beyond 950, I use a higher weight pellet (Provided its accurate)
Usually if a pellet is too light the sound signature of the rifle is more like crack, recoil is harsh and overall harmonics go for a toss. You can feel it. My Diana52 .177 was going as high as 979 on a 7.87grain JSB and I could feel it. Started using 8.44 grain JSB and I could feel difference in the shooting cycle. It is more subdued.
Not sure if this answers your question, basically you have to experiment a bit with different pellets and employ a chronograph.
My 2 cents
-Inder
Its a 16 ft.lb HW 95 and im wondering how far up and down the weight range i should explore.
Some heavier pellets are recommended for more powerrfulair rifles like PCPs which I understand can have twice the KE of mine.
I was thinkingof trying H&N baracude tinpellets that come inaround 13 gr.
are there problems with tin: fouling cleaning or aNything ? It wouldbe niceto use non toxic stuff for cleanup and disposal .
Well you have a good quality gun so don't destroy it!
I wouldn't go any lighter than 14gr but your sweet spot will be 15-17gr. Buy decent pellets, H&N or JSB are my two best pellet brands that perform well try out the JSB Hades .
For cleaning you should only need to push a rod and patch down once every tin of pellets you shoot (250ish shots). Never use brass Brushes to clean your air rifle barrel or you will ruin it and loose accuracy ( @kruza will be able to explain this for you?)
Forget about non toxic / green pellets they just aren't worth it, I've and others on here handled thousands of pellets and never got lead poisoning.......
I personally won't use alloy or copper. I have a tx200 and after getting tired of reading the arguments about weather or not to use metal brushes wrote to air arms who said don't use metal brushes (brass or copper or cleaning rods) as they run the risk of damaging the thinner lining of the barrel. Air rifles are not as hard a metal as powder guns. For this reason I don't use alloy or copper pellets. They are a harder metal than lead pushing their way down the barrel.Lead residue fills in small inperfections in the barrel and leaves a miniscule layer which is like a lubricant, alloy doesn't.
I got a lot of good advice from kiwi air gunners site. It's a bit of a quiet site, but some of ppl there know there stuff. Guys who are constantly buying, rebuilding, tuning their guns. (Looking at you billbob, as one) Go there and ask their views. I have no drought some one will have had the same rifle and can check notes on various weight and head sizes and point you in right direction.
There's also something called transonic flight, it's approx from 900fps to about 1200fps (I think) it's as the pellet heads into faster than speed of sound. It creates a vary erratic airflow around the pellet and kills stable flight. You need to be above or below this range. What are you using your gun for? Hunting? the heaviest pallet your gun shoots accurately in the ranges you intend to shoot.
Target shooting I only ever use the pellets I hunt with as to me it's just keeping your eye in, and learning your gun in different wind conditions and shooting positions for hunting. Target shooter can fill you in on what you need for that.
For your 16fpe HW95 i would use medium weight. They will have good speed, flat trajectory and won't damage your gun. For hunting and accuracy the JSB Hades 22 seem to work very well in a lot of rifles. H&N FTTs are also good in some HW barrels.
Forget the heavy or light question. Decide based purely on which pellet is the most accurate at the range you wish to shoot at.
I purchased a really nice Diana .177 but after zeroing the damn thing just simply would not shoot - at 25 metres would not even group an inch -frustrated at what I saw as a very nice air rifle I tried a mix of pellets .Aha it shot heavy pellets and hated light ones -I cant remember the weights but one brand called wolverine came down to near key hole groups -the only frustrating thing was so many pellets did not have the weight on packet - still had a mate with kids and an older BSA (huge difference in power ) that shot the light ones so spare light pellets gave hours of pleasure to the muppets
Transonic flight video, what it is and its relation to pellets.
https://youtu.be/HpDKxVuRWto
There's a good chance that the lighter pellets were getting into the unstable air flow speed. The heavier pellets slowed the speed to under it. (not that it matters you solved it thru cause and effect reasoning.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry the hunter
Thanks guys
Advice much appreciated.
Will post test results.
Airguns web Sites are quiet. Have got more response here.
I always had luck with exacts (NOT express(loose)
and the h&n heavier ones. All my airguns. I've got tonnes of pellets if you're after some to try
you might find some useful info here https://hardairmagazine.com/ballistic-coefficients/
as well as bc a lot have weight, head size percentage, cleanliness, deformities etc etc. per tin.
while talking pellets can anyone who uses or has used JSB exact jumbo diabolo 15.89gr tell me what you thought of them. possibly the fpi or fps (or metric) If you have the info.Gun shot through. They have sparked my interest as they are in the gr size my gun likes and I'm assuming that being jumbo have a slightly longer body, which seems to be better for flight stability. However as I have tins of none suitable pellets I've randomly brought to try I'd thought I'd try for a bit of info from ppl to see if it sways me for trying them or not. General pellet quality, weight variation per tin head size variation etc if ya have be good too. After real life info from being shot out doors as that's the environment I shoot in.
I havent got exacts in .22 at the moment - got JSB Stratton 15.89gr which you have seen the results through my CR600w and they are preforming amazingly. Ive just got a tin of .25 JSB Hades to test and just the quality in the look of them is awesome. There are quite a few youtube videos on the Hades with awesome results they may be a perfect pellet for your hunting - check out Teds Hold Over for his testQuote:
Originally Posted by kruza
Hows the pellet testing goingQuote:
Originally Posted by Bagheera
Havent been able to get out with the airgun for a few weeks but will report back when I can.
The power plant on a hw95 in 0.177 is identical to that in a 0.22 so no risk going as light as 8gr for you 0.22. Like others have suggested it's more a matter of finding the right pellet for your gun (light or heavy) that results in the tightest grouping. I am a fan of Pellpax and Crosman pointed pellets: decent price and very good accuracy. H&N field target trophy are a good generic pellet to start with and are available in 0.22 in 500 qty tins. H&N also make slightly different diameter pellets eg in 0.177 4.50, 4.51, 4.52mm. I haven't played around with these to understand the effect od smaller / larger diameter on power or accuracy - anyone else? Different brands and models certainly can be tight or loose when pushing them into the breech.
Ive mucked around with h&n ftt sorting them into weight and head size. In my gamo the 5.52mm head size definitly preformed better. ( note, this was for my rifle and in no way should be considered the same for other guns) The variation in head size per tin is rather suprising. Ive changed barrel and differnt pellets are now shooting more acurate. Ive narrowed it down to three and if the rain ever stops ill size and weight the most accurate tin for the most accurate size or weight. That then becomes what i fine tune my gun to shoot with. Those pellets that meet the standard become hunting pellets. The rest of tin genral plinkers that I compensate for as im shooting.
Might sound over board but pellet consistancy is an issue with some brands. Example is a gamo magnium tin I tried,some were lose enough that one fell out closing barrel, 3 wanted so much pressure to fit in the barrel I didnt use them. That tin is wasted money. A tin of white pellets I brought were so damaged,dirty and misformed i didnt even bother with them.
Unfortunatly although there are companies that have consistancy at a good level its not the rule of thumb in my experiance.
Yes tightness, weight ,pellet form do affect grouping, espially at distance in my experiance.
Thanks @Jwabfrog I hadnt thought of the “powerplant” comparison. I wonder if the smaller bore gives more resistance to the air or uf the springs are identical.
This was really the question I was asking: “how light would a pellet need to be before you damage your gun ?” Or
“Whats the lightest pellet I can shoot out of my 22 HW95 ?”
In looking at increasing power for
a 1322 I just got, an increase of port size increases air flow on discharge helping to increase power, so I'm assuming a smaller port will increase resistance. probly be something a pcp shooter could tell you. they deal with ports and valves as standard.
Thanks Kruza.
It's a spring gun and I'm worried about breaking the spring, piston etc if the pellet is too light and its half way like dry firing it.
buy a new spring. Get a new seal kit. Don't shoot anything that might damage bore, then give it hell. The problem is doing damage you can't fix, really.
what might seem great now, could be not great longer term.
As a general rule, with spring guns i would stay away from alloy or leadfree pellets. They are usually too light. For the very powerfull springers i would avoid the lighter lead pellets lke Express and RS pellets by JSB or other similarly light ones. For the really weak springers i would avoid the heaviest pellets. Otherwise don't worry too much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagheera
Did a quick search of weihrauch pellets. The lightest .22 pellet I found was 14.66gr.
( it's what I did for my tx and how I settled on 16gr for it)
A more comprehensive search might reveal different, but 14.66gr being the lowest that the manufacturer puts out would be a my limit. ( and they are lead)