Cats?

Just read this in the NZ herald.
Interesting that Safe have been left out of the loop.
Below is the article
"""
Eradicating feral cats and controlling the country's stray cat population are just two of key features of a leaked report of a national group formed to solve the country's "cat crisis".

Domestic cats could face a curfew if the Morgan Foundation has its way, while the SPCA would be keen to implement a de-sexing programme.

The National Cat Management Strategy Group got together in November 2014 and includes members of eight organisations including the SPCA, Morgan Foundation, New Zealand Veterinary Association [NZVA], NZ Companion Animal Council, Local Government NZ and the NZVA Companion Animal Society.

Ministry for Primary Industries and Department of Conservation have technical advisory members on board.

The group's 'strategic intent report' states that there "are estimates that indicate that there is a significant cat crisis in New Zealand."

It states it's estimated there were about 1.4 million domestic cats along with an additional 196,000 stray cats.

Geoff Simmons of the Morgan Foundation said various studies showed there were also between 2.4 and 14 million feral cats across the country.

He denied the Foundation wanted to get rid of the country's domestic cat population.

"We were never getting rid of all cats, the point was the problem is cats wondering into wildlife areas. Stray and feral cats are a major issue ... but also where people are living close to sensitive wildlife areas then domestic cats that wonder are a problem too."

Mr Simmons said once founder, Gareth Morgan, began airing his views about cats a few years ago, it led to NZVA to carry out some research.

"[The] research really backed up the point that we were trying to make ... given the emotiveness of this issue the Government is unlikely to take any action until there's some consensus amongst the major players, so that's why we thought it was worth sitting around the table and coming to a common view."

He said microchipping and keeping cats inside at night was good for the cat and environment.

"It's not really about a curfew although it may be in some areas that is a discussion but there's pretty good evidence that keeping the cat inside at night reduces its accident rates."

It was hoped the group would have something ready to put to Government "within the first half of the year".

RNZSPCA chief executive Ric Odom said progress was slowly being made, but public consultation was still to take place.

"It's really based around some principles which we've all agreed to; cats make good pets and we've got to recognise that for many, many New Zealand families cats are an integral part of the family, but we also have to recognise that particularly in some sensitive areas where we have native birds, cats can be a problem. So in respect to cats and cat ownership how do we educate the public and say we need to act responsibly.

"How will it pan out? I'm not really sure."

However, if he had one goal it would be to set up a "properly co-ordinated de-sexing programme"

But Craig Dunn of Paw Justice was unimpressed at being left out of the discussions and said the report was "heavily weighted against cats".

"We need to have facts around the information what they're saying ... I believe that cat owners should have a say about this as well, not just people that don't like cats. The big thing is that people's pets aren't caught up in this as well."

If too many cats were being wiped he wondered how that would impact the country's eco-system.

Hans Kriek, executive director of animal welfare organisation SAFE, was aware the group had been set up but was out of the loop in regards to its details.

He also backed Mr Odom's proposal of making it compulsory for cats to be desexed.

As for the cost to a cat owner, Mr Kriek said, "if you can't afford the de-sexing, you can't afford the animal".

In regards to a curfew, New Zealand Veterinary Association vice president Pieter Verhoek said he wasn't completely against the idea.

However, how and if a curfew would work was yet to be discussed.
"""

People are the biggest treat to native wildlife period. More PC BS

Why don't we start discussing getting rid of farmland and pine plantations, turning them back to native forest and fencing it all off?

"heavily weighted against cats"


ROFL

About 1968 I was asked by the local council to shoot wild cats that had invaded the edge of town after a large forest fire. All residents were advised in writing to have all pets locked inside by 8pm and I began shooting ( Ruger 10/22 and spotlight) at 9.30pm, having free reign through people's back yards. I shot about 200 over a couple of weeks, and my best area was the local cemetery. No pets were shot and everyone was happy. I can't see that being a popular option today!

I think they are correct on this issue and that given our unique ecosystem nobody in NZ or Oz should allow a cat free reign to wander where it likes and kill whatever it wants. If a dog did that it would get taken to the pound. Ferrets ownership is restricted for the same reasons. Shoot the lot of them.

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Originally Posted by Tussock

New Zealand's unique ecosystem once had crocodiles and coconut palms in the central South Island.

Trying to freeze biodiversity at a point in time is exceedingly stupid. Its pointless, absolutely guaranteed to fail and just an enormous waste of money.

Makes hand wringing do-gooders feel better about the reality that their lifestyle and existence impacts the world.

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I hear what you are saying but if you own an animal then you are responsable for what it does. If you let it wanted into other peoples property to shit in their garden (potentially giving those people a harmfull disease), kill their chooks or kill a Kiwi then you are responsable for those crimes in the same way a dog owner who lets his dog attack sheep is. We don't let any other animals wander at will so why should we tollerate it for cats?

Tussock - I think the cat's mind control parasites have gotten to you and are influencing your thoughts and actions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxoplasma_gondii

Of course they have heaps of backing, their mind control parasites have infected over half the population who are now enslaved to their feline masters. That doesn't stop me trying to fight the evil overlords though.

If you dog attacks and kills one of those cats then they could well be put down for being a dangerous dog. That just doesn't make any sense.

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Originally Posted by Tussock

A cat that wanders onto my property will need to survive my dogs if it wants to wander back off again.

I will point out this has little to do with cats. This is about pissing off one of the most intractable forces in our society. Little old ladies. They have phones, cats and nothing to do. They will form committees. Office after office of the government will go down due to being swamped in carefully hand written letters. Pressure will be placed on sons and daughters in high office.


These people are pissing into the wind. The biddies will tear them apart.

Cats have more backing than they do.

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God I'd hate to meet Mrs Gold Memeber then:O_O:

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Originally Posted by Tussock

A. I'm not sure this is a law where I live
B. While they are kind to cats on the most part, if they killed one I would bury it and forget it happened.

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You should have a good crop of tomatoes this year with all that blood and bone :ORLY:

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Originally Posted by Tussock

So far we have a 4 year record of only killing what we are told to kill. There was the chicken that was loved too much, but we don't talk about that.

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There's always one ah:thumbsup:just there to test the waters... Bet the cats said bet you can't cross that yard there and chicken said.......

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Originally Posted by Tussock

A. I'm not sure this is a law where I live
B. While they are kind to cats on the most part, if they killed one I would bury it and forget it happened.

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Do you live on the coast? The only law on the coast is that there are no laws....

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Originally Posted by MassiveAttack

I hear what you are saying but if you own an animal then you are responsable for what it does. If you let it wanted into other peoples property to shit in their garden (potentially giving those people a harmfull disease), kill their chooks or kill a Kiwi then you are responsable for those crimes in the same way a dog owner who lets his dog attack sheep is. We don't let any other animals wander at will so why should we tollerate it for cats?

Tussock - I think the cat's mind control parasites have gotten to you and are influencing your thoughts and actions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxoplasma_gondii

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Maybe we should ban all Dogs from the forests also as some do escape and kill Kiwis.

https://www.projectkiwi.org.nz/index...m&s2=Predators

I like both dogs and cats... but apparently dogs are adult Kiwi predator no1.

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Originally Posted by Tussock

New Zealand's unique ecosystem once had crocodiles and coconut palms in the central South Island.

Trying to freeze biodiversity at a point in time is exceedingly stupid. Its pointless, absolutely guaranteed to fail and just an enormous waste of money.

Makes hand wringing do-gooders feel better about the reality that their lifestyle and existence impacts the world.

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So True

I had my granddad who was a leading researcher on toxoplasmosis .
He was taking good care of the felines crossing the property under a 100m range!
I think cats should be registered, so that the money from that registration goes to contribute to desexing/ getting rid of the rest of the feral cats.
Also domestic cat should all have collars with 2 or 3 bells , as some can stalk preys with out making the one bell ring! The flashing light on the collar is a good thing as well.

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Originally Posted by Friwi

I had my granddad who was a leading researcher on toxoplasmosis .
He was taking good care of the felines crossing the property under a 100m range!
I think cats should be registered, so that the money from that registration goes to contribute to desexing/ getting rid of the rest of the feral cats.
Also domestic cat should all have collars with 2 or 3 bells , as some can stalk preys with out making the one bell ring! The flashing light on the collar is a good thing as well.

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Doubt you would achieve much by registering Cats, Dogs are primarily registered for their ability to hurt people and transmit things much worse than Toxoplasmosis. Otherwise I guess you could argue for registering a large number of domestic and stock animals. Look at the damage done by escaped rabbits and goats.

Registering and collaring Cats is pretty much what they do in parts of Australia. Seems silly after mowing down ever increasing swathes of land so that you can have your quarter acre of arid land and removing the natural habitat for the birds and lizards anyway.

I wont hesitate to shoot a feral cat if I see one, but this is just more do-good PC BS.

The registration would be there to get money to finance desexing / eradication, limit a little bit the number of cats per house hold, and have a very good reason to eradicate any cat that is not registered/ microchipped.
I just try to have a more diplomatic approach than to shoot any cat on site " à la Gareth Morgan"!

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Originally Posted by Friwi

The registration would be there to get money to finance desexing / eradication, limit a little bit the number of cats per house hold, and have a very good reason to eradicate any cat that is not registered/ microchipped.
I just try to have a more diplomatic approach than to shoot any cat on site " à la Gareth Morgan"!

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Realistically your registration money will be used in BS admin and paper pushing like so many other similar ideas.

Dosen't Gareth Morgan own a cat?

We could follow Australia also and register boats, firearms and everything else possible. Definitely solves tax gathering issues and keeps people employed.

Friwi I take it you hate cats?

The one that kill birds in my garden(I find a dead bird every 3 to4 weeks on my lawn on average!), or fight at night and shit everywhere,yes definitely.
In France, there is a rule in the country side: any cat further than 30 m from a dwelling is a considered a wild cat...

Oh the old cat shit in your garden!
Easy fix!
Collect said cat shit and dump it on the cats lawn!
Done at night.
Cat no longer shits in my garden:thumbsup: they always shit in the same place. Problem solved.
Pays not to get caught though, you need to dig a little scrape as well sort of make it look as though it's shat there.:thumbsup:
Looks like it's working for me at the moment:cool:

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Originally Posted by 300CALMAN

Maybe we should ban all Dogs from the forests also as some do escape and kill Kiwis.

https://www.projectkiwi.org.nz/index...m&s2=Predators

I like both dogs and cats... but apparently dogs are adult Kiwi predator no1.

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They are already banned in that if a dog is found on DOC land (outside the tightly controlled boundries of a dog permit) then it will be impounded and\or destroyed. If you want it out of the pound you have to pay a fine. This is how it should be, it's just that cats have an exemption from the normal rules cos they control the old ladies and they rule the world.

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Originally Posted by hamsav

Mind control parasites ? evil overlords ?.........you could hardly expect anyone to take you seriously now:P
I have a cat , and heaps of fantails , tui's, bell birds wood pigeons and other birds , happily he doesn't seem interested in them .... ha maybe he knows he's way to fat to catch anything that doesn't come in pre-packaged , anyhow we love him to bits but he wouldn't last long if I thought he had developed a taste for native fauna.
Cant remember the last time I read the news to find out that some old lady or kid has had his /her leg/arm/ face chewed off by a pack of out of control cats.... so they aint so bad , however if I had to choose between cats and native stuff the cats would lose every time , and feral ( and some domestic , pet ) cats must have an impact on native fauna..... just not sure how much ( both sides will get a bit hysterical and tend to mis quote anything to their favour ) or how to get a realistic and effective solution . One thing for sure as soon as there is money available it will get used up in politics and other bullshit as those involved will be looking to line their pockets and fuck all will actually be spent solving the problem.

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You had quite a good argument until you revealed that you are owned by a cat and therefore under it's influance!

The mind control parasites are scientific fact if you want to read wikipedia.

"Crazy cat-lady syndrome"[edit]
"Crazy cat-lady syndrome" is a term coined by news organizations to describe scientific findings that link the parasite Toxoplasma gondii to several mental disorders and behavioral problems.[88][89][90][91][92] Although researches found that cat ownership does not strongly increase the risk of T. gondii infection on pregnant women,[93][94] the suspected correlation between cat ownership in childhood and later development of schizophrenia suggest that further studies are needed to determine a risk factor for children.[95] The term crazy cat-lady syndrome draws on both stereotype and popular cultural reference. It was originated as instances of the aforementioned afflictions were noted amongst the populace. Cat lady is a cultural stereotype of a woman, often a spinster, who compulsively hoards and dotes upon cats. Jaroslav Flegr (biologist) is a proponent of the theory that toxoplasmosis affects human behaviour.[96][97]
Notable cases[edit]
Arthur Ashe (tennis player) developed neurological problems from toxoplasmosis (and was later found to be HIV-positive).[98]
Merritt Butrick (actor) was HIV-positive and died from toxoplasmosis as a result of his already-weakened immune system.[99]
Prince François, Count of Clermont (pretender to the throne of France); his disability caused him to be overlooked in the line of succession.
Leslie Ash (actress) contracted toxoplasmosis in the second month of pregnancy.[100]
Sebastian Coe (British middle-distance runner).[101]
Martina Navratilova suffered from toxoplasmosis during the 1982 US Open.[102]
Louis Wain (artist) was famous for painting cats; he later developed schizophrenia, which some believe was due to toxoplasmosis resulting from his prolonged exposure to cats.[103]
The Wealdstone Raider suffered toxoplasmosis for much of his childhood and adolescence.[104]

When we bought our place, I must have shot or trapped a cat a week for six months, not including the litters I found in the bushes which I promptly tap danced upon. Since then there has been a noticeable increase in bird life. Not just one or two birds, more like triple the coveys of quail etc .

Every cat owner dismisses their own cat as harmless. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not happening.

You're onto it Pointer. They hunt at night. Every fat tame harmless pussy was a deadly tiger in it's younger years.

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Originally Posted by Sideshow

Oh the old cat shit in your garden!
Easy fix!
Collect said cat shit and dump it on the cats lawn!
Done at night.
Cat no longer shits in my garden:thumbsup: they always shit in the same place. Problem solved.
Pays not to get caught though, you need to dig a little scrape as well sort of make it look as though it's shat there.:thumbsup:
Looks like it's working for me at the moment:cool:

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Not sure why you would be concerned about being caught.

A man in his mid 50's, who is a bit of a cat lover is busy working in his garden. Then he notices the little girl of the neighbours next door who is digging a hole in the middle of the lawn. At first he does not pay to much attention.1/2 h later he realises that the hole she is digging is quite large but says nothing. He just goes inside and have a cup of tea. When he has finished his tea, he goes back out and he sees the little girl who is back filling the hole she had dug out. Approaching the fence, he asks the little girl:
-hi. Why have you been digging a hole for?
-the girl replies: it is to bury my dead gold fish.
- the guy:but that is quite a large hole you dug for a small gold fish
- the girl ,as she just finished backfilling the hole: that is because my dead goldfish is inside your f..king Cat!!!

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Originally Posted by MSL

Not sure why you would be concerned about being caught.

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You haven't seen my neighbor wife:sick:
Also how you going to prove that the shit that your depositing back is from there cat, I'm not paying for the dan sample:omg:

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Originally Posted by Friwi

The registration would be there to get money to finance desexing / eradication, limit a little bit the number of cats per house hold, and have a very good reason to eradicate any cat that is not registered/ microchipped.
I just try to have a more diplomatic approach than to shoot any cat on site " à la Gareth Morgan"!

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proving ownership of a cat might be quite problematc but mainly only the rule followeres would pay.
the biggest problem is stray dumped cats with no owners no,one to feed and curb at least some of thie more murderous instints.
i have and now like cats but in the bush or bird hunting areas they die on site if i remember to load the gun right up:O_O:
its not the cats fault but its not the birds or mine either and given the condition of some i,ve cleaned up it was probably a small mercy.

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Originally Posted by Mauser308

My cat is doing far more for our native fauna than any bastard Morgan-esk greenie would ever acknowledge.

He catches probably 6 field mice and 2 rats for every bird - and to be fair I haven't seen a rabbit around here since that huge buck that got dragged in through the cat flap about 4 months ago. We don't even have territory scrapes on the lawn any more...

I suspect things that walk/run/hop are far far easier to catch than things that fly, and of the flying type - 95% are sodding introduced or introduced pests. He got a Rosella the other day - Good Boy!

I suspect I'm feeding him too much meat, because the bastard has stopped killing the rats before bringing them in for show and tell - and it's an utter bitch having to trap and deal to a pissed off rat in the house. I nailed the last one with a hand spear after chasing it for 2 hours including trying to suck it up the vacuum cleaner!

Rats are bastards...

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That's pretty much my experience of domestic cats. Only ever seen a couple of natives caught by cats.

That reminds me of the 1080 case:
Rats and mice reproduce way faster than the bird population. So even if a cat catches 6 times the amount of rodents to the amount of birds, there is nothing much fantastic about it because that might be the ratio of birds/ rodents in nature anyway.

The second thing is this: when all the local rodents are taken care off, the cat will still try to have a go at the birds.
And he might actually have a go at anything that presents itself in front of him : birds or rodent in no particular order.

Your cats aren't catching many native birds because there are not many left in most parts of the country particularly the urbanized parts. Generations of predators and habitat destruction have meant that the native birds (who evolved to cope with ground based predators) were out competed by the introduced species. Those introduced birds are themselves very aggressive so they then push out the natives. If you drive around Canterbury, one of the more modified parts of the country, then all you see is pigeons, magpies, plovers and harrier hawks. All these birds (except pigeons) will attack other the nests of other birds.

If you put your cat in enclosure containing a couple of kiwi and a couple of rats\mice it would catch the kiwi over the mice because it's far bigger, dumber and easier to catch.

Where I live we have lots of Tui, Morepork, Wood Pidgeon, Fantail and the odd waxeye (just found out their not native..) Mainly I think i'ts because we have native Forrest on the edge of our property (we are lucky). Lot's of well fed domestic cats too. Still get some introduced birds especially black birds.

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Yep. But, imagine the F-up that will occur if we get rid of all the cats that are dining on rats, mice and birds in no particular order. If there are 6x the amount of rodents to birds - we have a serious problem and 1080 will not fix nuthin.

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its a rare cat that will consistently take on big rats any cat is a potential killer including your big useless looking hairy persian.
in my experience cats find birds much more facinating than mice to the point of climbing trees to get at them nests and all.
if they run out of mice or the rodents become more clued up to the moggy bieng about then the cat hunting instincts aroused will take the path of least resistance.
keeping them well fed will curb them doing it to eat but it will not curb that killer instinct inherent in even your laziest lap moggy.
rats and mice have holes generally once down they are safe birds have no such luxury one of ours specialised in hedges and the sparrows blackbirds that live in them.
yes he started on rats and mice and every morning was a mose/rat massacre scene on the doorstep or front lawn but the rodents learnt and moved addresses.
his bent was blinding mice in one eye so he could show me how funny it was watching them run in circles or to make it easy for useless me to participate in the game one of the two:yaeh am not durnk:
seeing what you thought was the most useless lap warming laziest uglist pumkin head exotic persien emerge from bush reserve at the back of of your house with a tui in its gob
gives you an idea that hunting killing is latent in them all.

It is a no win subject - just upsets people - what they don’t know wont upset them
Saw this on FB this morning - these guys know what they are about - cute we animals - they wouldn’t kill a native bird would they - just trained to kill rats :huh:
https://www.facebook.com/DanielRitch...type=3&theater

The native species we have left are the ones that have adapted the best to the preaditors we introduced and the habitat changes we have made e.g. Paradise Ducks are doing fine. There are no weka on the east coast whereas there are heaps on the west coast. East coast is a far more modified environment with far more introduced preaditors.

A cat may catch a few mice but thats largely irrelevant as they can breed faster than they get eaten. It's like trying to shoot rabbits to reduce numbers. Go to a farm with heaps and shoot 1k rabbits (which I have done). Go back the next week and you won't be able to tell the difference because they are breeding so fast they have replaced the 1k that got shot. They are only limited by food sources. If you wanted to control them you would have to kill the last one i.e. blanket the place with 1080 repeatadly (which is the standard approach with high rabbit numbers).

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Originally Posted by MassiveAttack

The native species we have left are the ones that have adapted the best to the preaditors we introduced and the habitat changes we have made e.g. Paradise Ducks are doing fine. There are no weka on the east coast whereas there are heaps on the west coast. East coast is a far more modified environment with far more introduced preaditors.

A cat may catch a few mice but thats largely irrelevant as they can breed faster than they get eaten. It's like trying to shoot rabbits to reduce numbers. Go to a farm with heaps and shoot 1k rabbits (which I have done). Go back the next week and you won't be able to tell the difference because they are breeding so fast they have replaced the 1k that got shot. They are only limited by food sources. If you wanted to control them you would have to kill the last one i.e. blanket the place with 1080 repeatadly (which is the standard approach with high rabbit numbers).

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hasnt worked so far massive hence them having to bait them first then poison but they still cant be sure of the kills because whats underground and those rabbits ability to brreed like well rabbits .
calesci didnt work for long because they pig headedly introduced it wrong.
the only sure way is a several front attack poison shooting dogging and burrow gassing/ destruction its not like we dont have the labour but the political will and finances is the problem.
i think they put the cart before the horse in reintroducing the birds back to reserves which they poisoned trapped whatever but obviously took no account of the killers on thier door step or whether some of these places are a dumping ground of cats for the callous bastards of this world.