Thread: 223 on deer

Originally Posted by Springy

What sort of bullet is the Targex 74g?

Hollow point boat tail. Made in NZ using Berger jackets.

Originally Posted by Tahr

Hollow point boat tail. Made in NZ using Berger jackets.

390 yard with a .223 is pretty impressive regardless of the projectile. the image shows plenty of tissue damage. this sort of performance certainly cast doubt over the old theory that a clean kill on Deer size targets requires a minimum of 1000 foot pounds of terminal energy. In this case there would have been around 700 foot pounds.

Originally Posted by zeropak

390 yard with a .223 is pretty impressive regardless of the projectile. the image shows plenty of tissue damage. this sort of performance certainly cast doubt over the old theory that a clean kill on Deer size targets requires a minimum of 1000 foot pounds of terminal energy. In this case there would have been around 700 foot pounds.

Lucky that deer can't count, I suppose.

Those numbers always seemed reeeeeeealy arbitrary to me. Why 1000 foot pounds and not 1050, or 970? What weighting was given to bullet construction, impact velocity...... yet for decades people have repeated it, and experience here and elsewhere has blown great big holes through the story. Sounds like the science might not be completely settled.

Originally Posted by Ross Nolan

Lucky that deer can't count, I suppose.

Those numbers always seemed reeeeeeealy arbitrary to me. Why 1000 foot pounds and not 1050, or 970? What weighting was given to bullet construction, impact velocity...... yet for decades people have repeated it, and experience here and elsewhere has blown great big holes through the story. Sounds like the science might not be completely settled.

Yep agreed. 10 years ago you wouldn't see me dead using a .223 on Deer. Now I do it regularly and although I sometime look at that tiny wee cartridge and wonder if it really will do the job, it hasn't failed me as long as I do my part and stick the Pill in the right place. Up until now I have limited my shots to 300m and in, but maybe I am being conservative.

Originally Posted by Ross Nolan

Lucky that deer can't count, I suppose.

Those numbers always seemed reeeeeeealy arbitrary to me. Why 1000 foot pounds and not 1050, or 970? What weighting was given to bullet construction, impact velocity...... yet for decades people have repeated it, and experience here and elsewhere has blown great big holes through the story. Sounds like the science might not be completely settled.

Think that is right on the button. The "heavy" brigade are doing some amazing things with those pills...Tikka, Tahr, Gimp.

Yep I don’t believe in that 1000ft/lb energy theory. Have shot deer at 380m+ with pills lighter than 74 gr. They just need to be put in the right place. With the numbers I shoot I’m confident in the rifles I use putting the shot in the right place. Same for @Tahr and others I guess. 223 isn’t for everyone though.

Remember a lot of these sort of numbers came back when proper projectiles weren't really available, or from the states where these calibres were not permitted for deer sized game. Plus over there younhave a shit ton of older calibres that were.ok out to a hundy but that was about it.
Someone obviously started coming up with a relatively logical system using calibres that always basically worked and how far out and coming up with that number.
It doesn't account for bullet construction, accuracy, or skill of the shooter

It’s not new, the .22hp Sav with its 70 gn .228 projectiles had a similiar for efficacy beyond its case capacity.

The use of modern heavies in the .223 is a further refinement with some of the variance removed due to improvements in rifles, pills and optics.


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69gn Targex. 130m hind quartering slightly away, entry via onside crease, through major vessels of the heart, out via the offside should joint. Offside lung was jelly, hear wasn't attached to anything, and the offside shoulder was thoroughly destroyed. Dropped on the shot, got back up took five wobbly steps and dropped dead. Dog took me straight to her and just sat there as if to say "got another one for you".

Originally Posted by Makros

69gn Targex. 130m hind quartering slightly away, entry via onside crease, through major vessels of the heart, out via the offside should joint. Offside lung was jelly, hear wasn't attached to anything, and the offside shoulder was thoroughly destroyed. Dropped on the shot, got back up took five wobbly steps and dropped dead. Dog took me straight to her and just sat there as if to say "got another one for you".
Attachment 268467
Attachment 268468

Most excellent!

I know it's not on dear but tried the .223 and 77tmk at 300m today managed a good group but didn't score very well.
Now that load is ready for some deer I just need to check the zero before Stewart island

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Originally Posted by 25/08 IMP

I know it's not on dear but tried the .223 and 77tmk at 300m today managed a good group but didn't score very well.
Now that load is ready for some deer I just need to check the zero before Stewart island

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Good shooting. Is that one group or did you correct for the one in the middle? (those bullets are in my truck, must post them!)

Originally Posted by Tahr

Good shooting. Is that one group or did you correct for the one in the middle? (those bullets are in my truck, must post them!)

Just one group the inner and one of the 8 were sighters then fired the other 3.
It was hard as not allowed spotting scope and 12 power max so couldn't spot my shots.
After the sighters I was in 2 minds as to which shot I pulled and of cause it was the inner so then put the next 3 with 1 of my sighters.
But happy with the group.

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340 yards, with 74 Targex again. The tip over was a bit slow from a central shoulder shot so it got another one from steep down hill between the shoulders. That did it. I spend way too much time floundering around in the dark nowadays. Saw 5 before dark but all hinds and fawns, and 25 mixed sex in the first hour after sun set. This one is going to a charity for the disabled (all kosher). Got another one at the same time but no pic cos Brian went and got it. 254 yds and one shoulder shot.

Originally Posted by Tahr

340 yards, with 74 Targex again. The tip over was a bit slow from a central shoulder shot so it got another one from steep down hill between the shoulders. That did it. I spend way too much time floundering around in the dark nowadays. Saw 5 before dark but all hinds and fawns, and 25 mixed sex in the first hour after sun set. This one is going to a charity for the disabled (all kosher). Got another one at the same time but no pic cos Brian went and got it. 254 yds and one shoulder shot.

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Vid: https://youtu.be/muEBjYjtZEQ