Advice for DIY tahr hunt for nonresident

Hey everyone,

I’ve been starting to work on plans for a trip to the South Island for June of 2021 (if the virus outbreak is over by then). I’m planning to stay for a month to 5 weeks to go explore, but a friend will be joining me for about 10 days of the trip, and we are trying to plan a tahr hunt. Since we are both graduating from college this spring, we’re trying to keep the hunt cheaper and I like learning new places on my own without using a guide (makes the trip more rewarding). So, we decided on making this hunt DIY, and started doing research through articles, podcasts, YouTube, and the DOC website. We are trying to decide between applying for a ballot area or just going and hunting a non-ballot area (have a few general places I’ve been looking at). We figure that using a heli to access a hunting area will be around $1000 but would be willing to pay that in order to get into remote areas. Wouldn’t mind hiking or getting a ride with a 4x4 into somewhere. It seems that the ballot areas have a lot of tahr, but does that make the trophy potential better? It also seems that most of the camping in the ballot areas is done out of tents, so I was going to bring a bivy sack or a small 4 season tent for spike camping. If bad weather kept us in camp, it’d be rough staying in either of those, so I was wondering if there is anywhere that rents out tents that could be used as a base camp? Notice that non-ballot areas tend to contain a lot of huts, but do these areas have good numbers of tahr and have a chance of harvesting a chamois also? Any information would be greatly appreciated, and I am willing to trade information about hunting here in the states.

Sorry to hear that it sounds like hunting is being shutdown there due to the virus. Hope everyone is staying healthy :thumbsup:

I have not done a lot of Tahr hunting myself, but have had a little bit of experience in our alpine environment. There are some hazards up there that I would suggest taking a local of some sort. Maybe not a guide, but certainly someone who knows what sort of gear to take when it gets mean....Lives are at stake there and in June it is the start of winter here so shorter days and can get very cold.

Whether you shoot a tahr or not, at the very least I want you to be able to make it home.....

Welcome to the forum. The "protocol" here is for you to tell us a bit about your hunting (with pictures, we all read the pics) and when you get to 5 posts you can send private messages. I'm always happy to help visiting hunters that are willing to learn and respect our unique NZ hunting ethics/heritage.

Yeah I was figuring there would be a bit of a danger factor involved and am planning to bring the crampons and ice axes at least along with some good clothing (especially good rain gear). We would enjoy having local join us, but I don't know many people in New Zealand.

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Originally Posted by Tentman

Welcome to the forum. The "protocol" here is for you to tell us a bit about your hunting (with pictures, we all read the pics) and when you get to 5 posts you can send private messages. I'm always happy to help visiting hunters that are willing to learn and respect our unique NZ hunting ethics/heritage.

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Well I have lived in southwest Montana my whole life, and have been hunting and fishing with my family since I could walk. I've been hunting since I was 10 and have spent a lot of time chasing elk and upland birds. As I got older I have become a lot more interested in expanding my hunting knowledge so starting looking for hunts that are high difficulty or have been holding out for larger animals, but enjoy going out and harvesting river bottom whitetail does for meat when I haven't got to pull the trigger in a while.

Some of the bulls I've taken

Don't bring the crampons and iceaxe unless you know how to use them and have had experience using them. Also you are picking the most difficult time to be in Tahr country just about. Its serious country think winter hunting Rocky Mountain Goats then some. I would use a guide I know we seem like a cheap hunting destination but realize that a lot of us see you coming here and trying to be cheap as you do when you see non residents hunting in Montana except you don't pay huge amounts like we do in Montana. Also because we don't have limits people seem to think they should kill every bull they see which is a bit shit as I know if I came to Montana and killed every bull elk I saw (if it was legal) you'd be pissed so treat it like you would your own country. So now post the serious stuff if you want to DIY I would hunt them in October November as they are much lower down and the weather's less likely to kil you. Still have to be careful but it's probably the best time to do it unguided. If you get in earlier your more likely to catch the end of the winter Cape.
If you do come if June a ballot is a good idea or any chopper in trip and bring enough gear for a solid base amp and hunt from there. No need to spike camp really most things can be done in a day. A bivy sack is asking for it a bit in our winter a small 4 season probably makes more sense but a wall tent stove and some wood to burn makes a huge difference when coming back at night. Issues being is if you bundle up to keep warm you sweat when doing any work.

I'm actually a Montana native from Harrison if you know it. I hunted Montana late season elk and deer this year and passed on a few middle aged bulls and couldn't get a shot openning day on a stud of a bull in that snow storm that hit. Did take a nice whitetail up in the mountains hanging by himself. I would note while Montana is typically colder than here it feels colder in NZ as it is a wet cold not a dry cold also for the most part Tahr country is much steeper. Feel free to PM me and I'll give you my contact details as I do a 4wd Tahr trips each winter if I'm not going to be in Canada Guiding.

Welcome and good to see you are planning well in advance. 4-5 weeks should give you plenty of time to explore and get in a number of hunts.

At this stage there are no resident vs. non-resident hunting regulations on Public Land. You are probably aware of the current Government's mantra to eradicate all introduced "pests" and that now includes some majestic animals which were bought to NZ under specific programs over 100 years ago to provide recreational hunting opportunities.

Yes, we are nation like many others, hell bent on trying to rewrite history rather than making the effort to learn from past experiences.

Unfortunately, that list of "pests" includes Tahr so you should find plenty of information on the Department of Conservation (DoC) web site.

Reach out if you are looking for any more information. I have a US VoIP phone at home - equivalent to a US landline if it's easier to have a chat.

I normally spend about 3 months traveling in the Western US during the NZ winter but those plans are on hold for now.

Stay safe and healthy.

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Originally Posted by Stocky

Don't bring the crampons and iceaxe unless you know how to use them and have had experience using them. Also you are picking the most difficult time to be in Tahr country just about. Its serious country think winter hunting Rocky Mountain Goats then some. I would use a guide I know we seem like a cheap hunting destination but realize that a lot of us see you coming here and trying to be cheap as you do when you see non residents hunting in Montana except you don't pay huge amounts like we do in Montana. Also because we don't have limits people seem to think they should kill every bull they see which is a bit shit as I know if I came to Montana and killed every bull elk I saw (if it was legal) you'd be pissed so treat it like you would your own country. So now post the serious stuff if you want to DIY I would hunt them in October November as they are much lower down and the weather's less likely to kil you. Still have to be careful but it's probably the best time to do it unguided. If you get in earlier your more likely to catch the end of the winter Cape.
If you do come if June a ballot is a good idea or any chopper in trip and bring enough gear for a solid base amp and hunt from there. No need to spike camp really most things can be done in a day. A bivy sack is asking for it a bit in our winter a small 4 season probably makes more sense but a wall tent stove and some wood to burn makes a huge difference when coming back at night. Issues being is if you bundle up to keep warm you sweat when doing any work.

I'm actually a Montana native from Harrison if you know it. I hunted Montana late season elk and deer this year and passed on a few middle aged bulls and couldn't get a shot openning day on a stud of a bull in that snow storm that hit. Did take a nice whitetail up in the mountains hanging by himself. I would note while Montana is typically colder than here it feels colder in NZ as it is a wet cold not a dry cold also for the most part Tahr country is much steeper. Feel free to PM me and I'll give you my contact details as I do a 4wd Tahr trips each winter if I'm not going to be in Canada Guiding.

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Harrison? You ever spent time in the Pony Bar?

Although elk aren't really considered mountain hunting I've been hiking into alpine lakes here for 10 years in some nasty country and have started hunting sheep here over the last couple years in some of the most rugged country in Montana and have hunted late into November (haven't been successful yet). It got me hooked on mountain hunting and I go look for mountain goats for fun now (also if I ever draw the tag it will hopefully make it easier to harvest one). I also did a DIY Barbary sheep hunt in 2018 with only 4 days to hunt since I was also visiting family and ended up harvesting one. And yeah I would definitely try to holdout for a mature bull tahr and maybe harvest a nanny or 2 for meat and hides. And I'm no expert on being in the steep stuff in winter, but I've spent a little time doing it at least enough to know one mistake can be deadly.

Country I was hunting in November for sheep. Ended up having snow crack and made me decide to turn around.
Attachment 134032

Goat I ran into on a wind blown ridge while bear hunting last spring
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Trying to get to 5 posts to be able to pm people

With regards the guide, the local knowledge from someone from here can save you a lot of time and effort of learning from mistakes. They can help identify what the difference between a large bull and a rubbish one. And seeing as some of the mistakes can have serious consequences, guides can be worth more than what they cost. I have hunted with a guide for deer here in NZ and I learnt a lot from the experience. Just listening and watching what they do can make a huge difference.

@hunterAT my be able to help. I think he has just done a similar thing.

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Originally Posted by Shearer

@hunterAT my be able to help. I think he has just done a similar thing.

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Thanks I'll send him a pm.

My opinion is to forget it. Won't be any foreigners getting through our borders for at least 18 months.

Won't hurt to plan, but yeah, be flexible on timing.

An observations as someone who isn't from New Zealand:
Be aware that Kiwis warning you about the weather means a lot. NZ doesn't get the extremes that North America gets, but the weather changes faster and the landscape amplifies the effect of the weather - rain will swell a creek that that wasn't even noticeable under the gravel to a chute of water and rolling rocks in under an hour so you have to sleep out for the night, snow goes from crossable to a sheet of ice as the sun dips behind the mountain in late afternoon, and it goes from scorching hot to freezing cold and damp on the tops in minutes. Basically it's a different rule book.

Aside from the weather, most people coming here seem to be surprised by the steepness of the terrain. If you get delayed in coming do yourself a favor and spend as much time as you can hiking or hunting the steepest most unpleasant areas as you can and you'll be set. In terms of mindset, a lot of kiwi style hunting for tahr is a lot more like what North Americans would deem mountaineering.

All that said, you're planning so you're on the right track. NZ's an amazing place for all sorts of reasons, so certainly worth the visit, and the fact that you're planning and asking questions is a good indicator that you'll figure it out and have a good time.

PM me if you want some advice around the areas you’re looking at I’m help to lend my opinion and help you out. Yes areas outside the ballot definitely have good chamois and tahr numbers, in good areas it’s not uncommon to sit at the hut and see both species

Attachment 134066
This is a pretty typical example of west coast tahr country which is where the ballots are, not to say there aren’t some easier going blocks though. This is in late September and there is a lot less snow then a mid winter hunt. I would not have wanted to be there in mid winter.
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This is end of August and is what most of us would call some more acceptable tahr hunting country
I was speaking with a guy on a search and rescue mission earlier this year and he said the biggest issue is people from overseas not quite grasping how actually difficult the country is here based on how it looks on a map (not to say you are doing that) but it pays to always expect it to be more inaccessible than it looks, especially if you’ve never been here before. What you don’t want to have happen is getting choppered into somewhere that was a bit out of you comfort zone and you either get no hunting done or push yourself too far and get in trouble

@mountain_lunatic - when you look at a map and think "that's not so high" or "I can get from there to there in x time easy", consider this: some of us have hunted this country our entire lives, and often measure progress as hrs per kilometer, not kilometers per hr. Mountain and bush hunting fitness is a question of perception related to the terrain you typically hunt, our bush will give you nightmares, especially if your nav is shit. Find a 10 story building, put 10 kilos or so in your pack, put it on and pick up a length of scaffold tube (a rifle might make people nervous) and spend 10hrs or so bashing up the stairs to the top, then back down to the bottom - rinse and repeat with the occasional break for a few minutes. Then decide on your fitness. You get in the shit on some nasty bit of hill, it will be fitness and bloody mindedness that keeps you alive.

You have had a lot of great advice and FWIW here is mine.

It seems that the ballot areas have a lot of tahr, but does that make the trophy potential better? Overall probably. But part of the attraction / trophy is the amazing country.
is anywhere that rents out tents that could be used as a base camp? Not that know about. Many people take small tents and if the weather is bad, just delay or shorten the trip to avoid days and days in the tent. Getting the weather right is key, have a west coast plan and an east coast plan. Its not often that both sides of the southern alps have terrible weather.
Notice that non-ballot areas tend to contain a lot of huts, but do these areas have good numbers of tahr and have a chance of harvesting a chamois also? Yes.
Any information would be greatly appreciated, and I am willing to trade information about hunting here in the states. Please send me info on elk hunting spots in western MT :) Only joking but i am planning to apply for a MT big game combo next year to hunt deer and elk. I should draw as I'll have two points.
PM me if you want more info.

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Originally Posted by mountain_lunatic

Harrison? You ever spent time in the Pony Bar?

Although elk aren't really considered mountain hunting I've been hiking into alpine lakes here for 10 years in some nasty country and have started hunting sheep here over the last couple years in some of the most rugged country in Montana and have hunted late into November (haven't been successful yet). It got me hooked on mountain hunting and I go look for mountain goats for fun now (also if I ever draw the tag it will hopefully make it easier to harvest one). I also did a DIY Barbary sheep hunt in 2018 with only 4 days to hunt since I was also visiting family and ended up harvesting one. And yeah I would definitely try to holdout for a mature bull tahr and maybe harvest a nanny or 2 for meat and hides. And I'm no expert on being in the steep stuff in winter, but I've spent a little time doing it at least enough to know one mistake can be deadly.

Country I was hunting in November for sheep. Ended up having snow crack and made me decide to turn around.
Attachment 134032

Goat I ran into on a wind blown ridge while bear hunting last spring
Attachment 134033

Trying to get to 5 posts to be able to pm people

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I was there a few time in November. My parents and grandparents are on the wall. I take it you've been doing the unlimited hunts. I was planning on doing them one year but as a non res it's a spendy hunt for such low odds. Although the experience would be worth it atleast once.

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Originally Posted by Stocky

I was there a few time in November. My parents and grandparents are on the wall. I take it you've been doing the unlimited hunts. I was planning on doing them one year but as a non res it's a spendy hunt for such low odds. Although the experience would be worth it atleast once.

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That’s a bit rough, are they euro or shoulder mount?


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Apart from the usual "under-estimating" the nature of NZ terrain and weather the biggest mistake I see visiting hunters make is trying for "the main event" first. You seem to be allowing a bit of time, thats good (pushing the limits to make deadlines is what leads to most tragedies in our mountains) - use it by going on less ambitious hunts of a couple of days each in moderate terrain to gain an understanding of what you are facing . . . acclimatize!

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Originally Posted by MSL

That’s a bit rough, are they euro or shoulder mount?


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Just a euros mate. poor capes a tad wrinkly to mount hahaha

Haha


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