Thread: Advocacy Alert: MPI's New Deer & Pig Programme

maybe it is time for some old ideologues to step aside and let younger generations find a solution rooted in facts and common sense instead of trying to push an agenda...

As a farmer, Im under no illusions that the feds current involvement, and F&B for that matter, stems from their perceived loss of influence brought on by the HOSI bill and the GAC.

Let's be real clear. If wild venison prices were high, the current reps of the farming industry would likely be in the media explaining why tighter restrictions on public access are required.

Forest Products ran a pretty good hunting access for years Kinleith Forest.
Locals will know better than me but it appeared to work and possibly still does.
Anecdotally everybody seemed to do all right and pigs and deer numbers didn't go silly.
How hard is it to run a permit system involving local clubs.

Originally Posted by STC

maybe it is time for some old ideologues to step aside and let younger generations find a solution rooted in facts and common sense instead of trying to push an agenda...

Don't put up with that @whanahuia

Originally Posted by Tahr

Don't put up with that @whanahuia

To be fair, Ive been called much worse, and old depends which side of the 1970s you are standing on I guess?

Its a simple case of mathematics.
On one hand you have the members of Forest and Bird...... 40,000 adult members according to a quick google...

On the other hand you have Licensed firearms owners........235,000 according to the google search.

If one third ( 80,000) of the licensed firearms owners joined F&B they would outnumber their current members by 2 to 1.

There are 44 branches of F&B in NZ. If enough LFO's joined and turned up at each branchs AGM, they could vote to remove the current committee and elect a committee of LFO's. Control of F&B would now rest with LFO's. We continue their good work in other areas like Kiwi protection etc but we control their narrative when it comes to game animals...

Basic maths!

Originally Posted by whanahuia

Let's be real clear. If wild venison prices were high, the current reps of the farming industry would likely be in the media explaining why tighter restrictions on public access are required.

Tahr will remember when they tried exactly that, lobbied to have Crown ownership of wild game effectively removed so ownership rested with the landowner. The Wild Animal Control Act almost created that de facto (Graeme Caughley in The Deer Wars covers it really well).

I'd imagine Crown 'ownership' of wild game will be uncontested now, as you say

Originally Posted by STC

maybe it is time for some old ideologues to step aside and let younger generations find a solution rooted in facts and common sense instead of trying to push an agenda...

So long as the young generation remember that truism, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

Originally Posted by Tahr

Don't put up with that @whanahuia

Wasnt refering to him.

Originally Posted by Allgood

Its a simple case of mathematics.
On one hand you have the members of Forest and Bird...... 40,000 adult members according to a quick google...

On the other hand you have Licensed firearms owners........235,000 according to the google search.

If one third ( 80,000) of the licensed firearms owners joined F&B they would outnumber their current members by 2 to 1.

There are 44 branches of F&B in NZ. If enough LFO's joined and turned up at each branchs AGM, they could vote to remove the current committee and elect a committee of LFO's. Control of F&B would now rest with LFO's. We continue their good work in other areas like Kiwi protection etc but we control their narrative when it comes to game animals...

Basic maths!

I wouldnt call many twig & tweeders adults, at least not on an emotional level.

LFOs would indeed do well to better leverage their numbers

Originally Posted by Allgood

Its a simple case of mathematics.
On one hand you have the members of Forest and Bird...... 40,000 adult members according to a quick google...

On the other hand you have Licensed firearms owners........235,000 according to the google search.

If one third ( 80,000) of the licensed firearms owners joined F&B they would outnumber their current members by 2 to 1.

There are 44 branches of F&B in NZ. If enough LFO's joined and turned up at each branchs AGM, they could vote to remove the current committee and elect a committee of LFO's. Control of F&B would now rest with LFO's. We continue their good work in other areas like Kiwi protection etc but we control their narrative when it comes to game animals...

Basic maths!

Have always said its way better to fight these dickheads from within than from the outside. Would be so simple just to out number them. And for the good of the country. The only hiccup is that they are basically a professional lobby group, the boffins at the top are paid. The lackies that actually get out in the feild and do some good stuff are just a front so the lobby group can continue to milk the system.

So there are a couple of MAJOR differences between what's happening now and what happened in the 60s-80s......our access may well be more difficult to get but our ability to get in if we have it is different,both good and bad. Our vechilles are miles ahead of what we had back then. The thermals have superceded spotlights pretty much across the board... And for me the biggest change is the really big stations have been cut up.and those that are still big are SEEN,looked over far more than before due to ease of access by farm staff,half an hour on quad of five minutes in chopperVs half a day ride on horseback so numbers getting up AREN'T going unseen,unchecked yes,but unseen,no. That fella the other night saying he can see 500-1000 deer in a night on edge of Fiordland....unless I see video evidence of it I call bullshit of smelliest variety. I remember the cullers shooting 1400 goats off our farm and similar numbers off surrounding farms.and the farms sure we're not getting over run beforehand. Also we now KNOW how efficient outright search n destroy from the air can be....we did not beforehand.

The wallabies are no different. What we are seeing now is direct result of last 25 years of restricted access to farms..and it's still happening. The Nimrod block is classic case of one man stopping access to thousands of ha of Doc controlled land....the right of way has provision,no firearms to be carried....so it's a two day walk in from the hakataramea valley or not at all.so that block acts as nursery and keeps surrounding land reinfestated no matter how hard public land hunters shoot what they can get to with a couple of hours walk... I have seen big mobs of stags,as in hundred plus BUT they are on private land NOBODY is allowed to shoot....same owner has huge numbers of tahr....and again has a DOC block land locked to all but air access.... The lease conditions on publically owned land around these areas needs revised at top level...and it needs done yesterday.the same with restrictions on landing zones. Hell if it's peace n quiet issue make it accessible only on one day of the week.... Unless for pick up when weather prevented correct day. If really want numbers reduced..also revisit hours when shooting is permitted...and boy is THAT opening a can of worms.spotlighting was rife back in meat hunting days...it worked...

Possums and wallabies are both nocturnal so we fighting with hands tied behind our backs. If safety is issue MAYBE shotgun and pellet no larger than BB is all that is permitted to be used after dark....again a can of worms but by hoki would it level playing field back in hunters favour somewhat.

I was building down in Te Anu in the early to mid 70s.26 full time choppers coundnt keep the numbers down,and they were very busy carrying deer back to Te Anu and other chiller trucks around the area.How the hell are we going to do it these days unless we are payed well per kilo with good access.

The truth is the whole set up is a conflicting shambles of ideology/s and hypocrisies. WARO can hunt and land anywhere and seem to be held up always as a useful tool. Yet the current and long term outlook is that they will not be a major participant. They have always conflicted with REC hunters through targeting of stags when they are operating, and both groups have to have the question asked that if their main goal is males, then what good are they doing? Though I think rec hunters do take a lot of females outside of the roar.
Rec hunters face a heap of restrictions over vast areas of public land- wilderness areas, remote experience zones, national parks. All mostly mandate walk in and much of that country is remote as hell and requires experience in tough terrain.
Private land and lack of access has been a major contributor too this current problem. Dont get me wrong it is private land- whether farmland, forestry or Iwi, and it's their prerogative to manage it how they wish. But at least two of those groups seem to be wanting their cake and to eat it too.

Environmentalist want eradication as the base line, as can bee seen with Wapiti and the HOSI bill, despite 100 years of that mandate being the default setting and its been an absolute failure that has pretty much prevented any semblance of structured, goal orientated management.

Rec hunters want everything and for free. Just dare mention a licence or tag system. Yet they are going to have to contribute more. Way more somehow.

The whole thing is a shitshow, and you could not design a system to fail any better.