Welcome guest, is this your first visit? Create Account now to join.
  • Login:

Welcome to the NZ Hunting and Shooting Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.

DPT Black Watch


User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 33
Like Tree71Likes

Thread: Donald Trump's regime reverses ban on elephant trophies..

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Cambridge
    Posts
    924

    Donald Trump's regime reverses ban on elephant trophies..

    For those of you that are interested...

    Donald Trump's regime reverses ban on elephant trophies - NZ Herald

    "The Trump administration says it will allow the importation of body parts from African elephants shot for sport, contending that encouraging wealthy big-game hunters to kill them will aid the vulnerable species."

  2. #2
    Numzane Spudattack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Whangarei
    Posts
    2,636
    Good to see sanity prevailing over hysteria and sensationalism for a change.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    "Here's the deal I'm the best there is. Plain and simple. I wake up in the morning and I piss excellence."

  3. #3
    Bus driver
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Porirua/Whangateau
    Posts
    1,633
    So who is really responsible for all that shit...TRUMP???.....I think not
    It's not the mountain we conquer,but ourselves.....Sir Edmund Hillary

  4. #4
    Bus driver
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Porirua/Whangateau
    Posts
    1,633
    Kinda chickshit of me to post the above statement without elaborating.I have a close friend of mine,From Zimbabwe,flew For the Zim Govt,in its protection,surveillance programme.To cut a long story short,as this could be a very interesting debate,he firmly believes,as there are several sides of thought,that the legal and conservation side of this issue in taking this game go hand in hand.The monies garnished from this is in turn stop the biggest issues of poaching.

    The poaching issue is what creates an illegal black market ( which will never stop)as Asians ( not being prejudiced here)are the largest purveyors of this product.My mate firmly believes with deeper pockets,the protection of these animals is enhanced due more feet on the ground,drones,aircraft,infra-red etc,watching these animals.

    I’m not a blowing Trumps horn here,I’m not sure of the details of this agreement as they are still coming out.But one thing is for sure,controlled hunting ,the money it brings and conservation and management practices in the hands of those who know what they are doing,can’t be a bad thing.As it stands now,these Govts,lack bad,y needed funds.
    It's not the mountain we conquer,but ourselves.....Sir Edmund Hillary

  5. #5
    OPCz Rushy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Nor West of Auckland on the true right of the Kaipara River
    Posts
    27,826
    I understand the arguement that the fees derived from big game hunting fund anti poaching initiatives in Africa but for me there is an obscenity that attaches to killing a magnificent animal and justifying it in the name of protecting its kind. I am not saying don't kill the animal, I am just saying call it what it is (trophy hunting). As to the poachers that feed the demand from Asia for ivory and tiger penis etc, they certainly need to be stopped (shot on sight will do) but more so the demand end of the transaction needs to be tackled as if there was no demand then those involved in the supply end would halt there activities ( basic economics 101).
    Scouser, Nick-D and Huk like this.
    It takes 43 muscle's to frown and 17 to smile, but only 3 for proper trigger pull.
    What more do we need? If we are above ground and breathing the rest is up to us!
    Rule 1: Treat every firearm as loaded
    Rule 2: Always point firearms in a safe direction
    Rule 3: Load a firearm only when ready to fire
    Rule 4: Identify your target beyond all doubt
    Rule 5: Check your firing zone
    Rule 6: Store firearms and ammunition safely
    Rule 7: Avoid alcohol and drugs when handling firearms

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    .
    Posts
    1,873
    Quote Originally Posted by Rushy View Post
    I understand the arguement that the fees derived from big game hunting fund anti poaching initiatives in Africa but for me there is an obscenity that attaches to killing a magnificent animal and justifying it in the name of protecting its kind. I am not saying don't kill the animal, I am just saying call it what it is (trophy hunting). As to the poachers that feed the demand from Asia for ivory and tiger penis etc, they certainly need to be stopped (shot on sight will do) but more so the demand end of the transaction needs to be tackled as if there was no demand then those involved in the supply end would halt there activities ( basic economics 101).
    People who go out in the roar are Trophy Hunters. Looking for the best Stag they can find to hang it's skull and antlers on the wall. A big beautiful red is just as magestic as an elephant. I fail to see the difference
    Savage1, tetawa, ebf and 5 others like this.

  7. #7
    Member Marty Henry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Tararua
    Posts
    3,310
    A friend of mine recently returned from a hunting trip to Botswana, it is in his opinion is expensive, highly regulated, and necessary for animal welfare.
    Where he hunted antelope species and zebra numbers were very high so these were the main targets for paid hunts. Elephant nos were low and were not on the list but were still in other areas not that he was interested (or could afford it).
    Interestingly the head guide told him that uncontrolled trophy hunting for apex predators in the last 20 years was responsible for overpopulation.
    There are a few skins coming home and a wart hog head which should confuse the pig hunters.

  8. #8
    Numzane Spudattack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Whangarei
    Posts
    2,636

    Donald Trump's regime reverses ban on elephant trophies..

    Quote Originally Posted by Rushy View Post
    I understand the arguement that the fees derived from big game hunting fund anti poaching initiatives in Africa but for me there is an obscenity that attaches to killing a magnificent animal and justifying it in the name of protecting its kind. I am not saying don't kill the animal, I am just saying call it what it is (trophy hunting). As to the poachers that feed the demand from Asia for ivory and tiger penis etc, they certainly need to be stopped (shot on sight will do) but more so the demand end of the transaction needs to be tackled as if there was no demand then those involved in the supply end would halt there activities ( basic economics 101).
    Fair call Rushy and I can see why people are opposed to trophy hunting.

    That said, who are we to sit here in our first world country, shooting whatever we like and justifying it by saying we will eat it or it’s a pest, but vilifying someone who does it in Africa because it is a different animal to what we shoot/eat/farm etc.
    As said above, this country is full of trophy hunters chasing stags.

    Despite the anti poaching side of it, which is a very valid argument, there is also the matter of making the animals valuable as a commodity to their “owners.”
    What is generally not understood is that nearly all hunting in Africa is done on private gamefarms or on concessions which are tribal land and contracted to safari outfits.
    Hunting quotas are actively managed in these areas by the farmer (no farmer would ever kill all their stock) or be the outfit who then answers to the tribal council, that are also required to do anti poaching patrols, clear snares, employ tribespeople as game scouts and actively manage the hunting stock.
    One of the big responsibilities of the hunting outfits is to manage problem animals that destroy crops and kill tribespeople.
    Most of the meat and some of the trophy fees go to the tribe and provide income for infrastructure, food and clean water.

    Most animals that are classed as “threatened” like lions and elephants are due to habitat destruction, they are in fact overpopulated in many areas for the land area.

    Take away the revenue from hunting, as these are not areas that will be frequented by photo safari clients, and you take away the animals value, they become more valuable as food than as a commodity. That are seen as crop raiding pests and threats and get slaughtered for meat and ivory and protection of livestock, the Bush gets cleared to plant more crops and grow grass to feed livestock.
    No patrols mean the bush gets full of snares and thousands of animals die a painful death.

    For the gamefarmer this also means a loss of income and he must change his farming practice to crops or livestock, again, habitat destruction which is the main threat to conservation.

    Look at Kenya, since they banned hunting, the funds dried up and the poachers moved in, their wildlife has been decimated .


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Spudattack; 18-11-2017 at 08:00 AM.
    outdoorlad, 04sika, Timmay and 8 others like this.
    "Here's the deal I'm the best there is. Plain and simple. I wake up in the morning and I piss excellence."

  9. #9
    Bus driver
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Porirua/Whangateau
    Posts
    1,633
    Good call Rushy,and ditto to paddy.Rushy,last year I was on contract with Airbus,with an Oz mate of mine,we were contracted to deliver Airbus Aircraft to various parts of the world.We delivered 2 Airbus 319,s,one to Harare Zimbabwe,the other to Kampala Uganda.To go all that way and not see the sights and to the Kiwi tiki tour seemed stupid.

    We both opted for the Bush tours,through their national parks,an awesome spectacle,by any standards.The subject came up continuously about the horrendous poaching that goes on,and their inability to defend these animals to poachers.The govts,of both countries lacking in money and manpower,and that has since been changing due to the influx of high paying shooting visitors taking “TROPHY”game.Im like you,not interested in taking trophy’s,but the choices are being made,and high dollar trophy hunting is giving these people money to defend these animals,track and sometimes shoot poachers,and provide the nessacery resources to make protection easier,.....the world we now live in,and it’s realities.Paddy makes a great point,with regards to trophy hunters anywhere.
    EeeBees likes this.
    It's not the mountain we conquer,but ourselves.....Sir Edmund Hillary

  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Napier
    Posts
    756
    Don't believe for a second that orange oompah loompah has the interests of conservation at heart - he doesn't have the attention span to read any briefing longer than one page....
    This is nothing but a distraction for some unpalatable changes or some unpleasant news about to break (think Russia probe? Trump's own Weinstein/Spacey moment...) yet people snap it up like it's top of the offal pit/....
    EeeBees likes this.

  11. #11
    Numzane Spudattack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Whangarei
    Posts
    2,636

    Donald Trump's regime reverses ban on elephant trophies..

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickoli View Post
    Don't believe for a second that orange oompah loompah has the interests of conservation at heart - he doesn't have the attention span to read any briefing longer than one page....
    This is nothing but a distraction for some unpalatable changes or some unpleasant news about to break (think Russia probe? Trump's own Weinstein/Spacey moment...) yet people snap it up like it's top of the offal pit/....
    Whatever it may be, it doesn’t change the fact that it is still a step in the right direction for conservation in Africa, despite what the media wants us all to think.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Timmay, hotsoup and TheJanitar like this.
    "Here's the deal I'm the best there is. Plain and simple. I wake up in the morning and I piss excellence."

  12. #12
    OPCz Rushy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Nor West of Auckland on the true right of the Kaipara River
    Posts
    27,826
    For the record guys, I am not against trophy hunting despite the fact that I have never been a trophy hunter ( unless you count taking a head shot sparrow to show the old man when I was a kid). My message was simply call it what it is and don't justify it by saying it helps conservation and anti poaching efforts. There is is no need to justify the sort of hunting you want to do. As long as it is legal then no one should give a shit (the bunny loving, tree hugging brigade excepted).
    Chris, Spudattack and Frodo like this.
    It takes 43 muscle's to frown and 17 to smile, but only 3 for proper trigger pull.
    What more do we need? If we are above ground and breathing the rest is up to us!
    Rule 1: Treat every firearm as loaded
    Rule 2: Always point firearms in a safe direction
    Rule 3: Load a firearm only when ready to fire
    Rule 4: Identify your target beyond all doubt
    Rule 5: Check your firing zone
    Rule 6: Store firearms and ammunition safely
    Rule 7: Avoid alcohol and drugs when handling firearms

  13. #13
    Member Boaraxa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Southland
    Posts
    1,996
    Good on trump his idea or not he,s just flicked the bird to safe,peta animal rights etc what's the point in having some old animals wandering around waiting to get eaten by the lions , in some cases to old to breed makes sense to have some high roller come in and spend a fortune to shoot them, guess the key will be making sure a decent cut of the $ go,s back in to fund conservation ,anti poachers etc & not in some corrupt officials pocket .I see the anti,s are out in force with pictures of baby elephants lol
    Paddy79 likes this.

  14. #14
    Member Beavis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    The Cape
    Posts
    3,833
    I tried explaining to the stay at home mums on the Herald page, the benefits bought to Africa by rich hunters, who will harvest game legally while lining the pockets of the locals, and how culling certain animals can be beneficial overall to the herd. Predictably, I was met with the usual media indoctrinated canned outrage. I am all for a rational, evidence based discussion, but sometimes, especially when the neigh sayers have the IQ of a house cat, it is best just to do what you want and tell people to get fucked.
    Savage1, EeeBees, Rich007 and 5 others like this.

  15. #15
    Member stretch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Clarks Beach, (South of) Auckland
    Posts
    1,718
    It still irks me that the media call it the Trump "regime", as if he's some dictator who illegitimately stole power through a military coup.

    Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk

 

 

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 17-01-2017, 07:16 PM
  2. Elephant autopsy
    By stug in forum Off topic
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 22-01-2016, 12:54 PM
  3. elephant skewers buffalo
    By stug in forum Off topic
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 21-01-2016, 07:14 PM
  4. Elephant rock Bungle Bungles
    By madjon_ in forum The Magazine
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 01-09-2014, 11:01 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Welcome to NZ Hunting and Shooting Forums! We see you're new here, or arn't logged in. Create an account, and Login for full access including our FREE BUY and SELL section Register NOW!!